It seemed to me that if the dog can’t handle the continuous stimulation at a certain level, “vocalization and rearing up”, that a continuous nick at the same level would result in similar behavior.
Maybe you could explain why “you may have to go to the nick button to work him”. What makes the difference??? Why isn’t the communication as effective???

Dave Lilley wrote: I find that my dogs "working stim level" changes with the amount of drive. When chasing a squirrel, for example, he seems to be able to ignore even the highest stim on the Dogtra 1200.

LC: Dave this just a difference of semantics. I call the dog’s “working level” that at which he first perceives the stimulation. That’s where I do most of my teaching and some of the training. What you describe here is what I call his “distraction level.” The working level rarely changes more than a very small amount but the distraction level may change drastically, depending on the nature and the degree of the distraction.

LC: If all you do is try to blast the dog off the chase without doing some conditioning you may discover that he can’t be blasted off.

Alan wrote: It seemed to me that if the dog can’t handle the continuous stimulation at a certain level, “vocalization and rearing up”, that a continuous nick at the same level would result in similar behavior. Maybe you could explain why “you may have to go to the nick button to work him”. What makes the difference??? Why isn’t the communication as effective???

LC: I think there are several ways of using the buttons. Continuous is using the continuous button. As long as it’s held down a stimulation is given. Nick is using the nick button. Every time it’s pressed the dog gets a stimulation that lasts about one–thousandth of a second. Then there is tappng, which is pressing, and releasing as quickly as possible, the continuous button. This gives a stimulation that is considerably longer than the nick button but isn’t continuous. You can also use the nick button by pressing it rapidly in succession.

LC: All other things being equal, the severity of the stimulation to most dogs (from least to most) seems to be nick, pressing the nick rapidly, tapping and continuous. This has been the perception of every human that has tried it on themselves (there are those who say it’s not the same, but I think there are similarities) and how the dogs respond as well. As you can see from my hierarchy of discomfort above, the continuous nick is less aversive, less unpleasant, than the continuous mode.

LC: I think the communication isn’t as clear because the nick mode is continually stopping and starting. As an analogy, imagine that I’m trying to get you to go to a specific place. I’m guiding you to that place with continuous pressure on your back. You will get to that spot pretty quickly. But if I applied pressure in the right direction and then stopped, you’d be free to veer off in any direction. I’d then apply pressure again and again and again, until you got to that spot. Imagine me tapping on your back to get you to the correct spot. It wouldn’t be as clear to you exactly where I wanted you to go because the pressure on your back wasn’t continuous.

Okay Lou, if I understand you correctly, there is a difference between nick, tapping, and continuous. All other things being equal, such as the stimulation level, then what makes the difference??? Could it be timing????

LC: I think the communication isn’t as clear because the nick mode is continually stopping and starting. As an analogy, imagine that I’m trying to get you to go to a specific place. I’m guiding you to that place with continuous pressure on your back. You will get to that spot pretty quickly. But if I applied pressure in the right direction and then stopped, you’d be free to veer off in any direction. I’d then apply pressure again and again and again, until you got to that spot. Imagine me tapping on your back to get you to the correct spot. It wouldn’t be as clear to you exactly where I wanted you to go because the pressure on your back wasn’t continuous. Lou, are you using the continuous stimulation to teach (motivate) a behavior??? Or does the dog already understand the command to go to the spot and avoid any pressure???

Alan wrote: Lou, are you using the continuous stimulation to teach (motivate) a behavior??? Or does the dog already understand the command to go to the spot and avoid any pressure???

LC: Alan I’m not sure how I missed this question from April, but I apologize. I use the Ecollar several ways; to teach a new behavior, to train behavior already taught and to polish those trained behaviors.

LC: I usually start out by teaching the recall, then the sit and then the sit-at-a-distance. From there it depends on what else is needed. For a SAR dog there might be crittering training and directionals. For PSD’s the entire OB array, including the out, is taught. For pets, it’s up to the owners.

LC: I use the continuous mode for all of that unless the dog is too sensitive to the constant stimulation.

Can you use an e collar prior to the proofing stage in training the recall?