I picked up some of the later comments. I had the other page up, typing off and on.
"I've seen some Kuvasz in my local Obedience classes work up to the level of CD Ob, but everyone of them displayed some aggression issues. And they certainly weren't fast leaners...
If you need "protection or guarding" , there are many breeds that have better protective instincts plus are more trainable than the Kuvasz.
Why putter around in a VW when you can drive a Lexus? Get a working lines GSD or a nice Mal and be done with it! "
(1) I didn't want "protection" or "Guarding". I wanted a breed that because of those that kind of traits would be constantly attentive to my whereabouts. (I now need a service dog - usually just to carry stuff, at odd moments for balance when my back is non-functional.) I did NOT want a prey driven prey - been there down that, thank you very much - I don't have that kind of energy anymore.
(2) They had to be heavy enough and tall enough to do what I need. Over 100lbs, 28-30"
I specifically picked the breed for the job based upon decades of experience - not because I thought they were pretty. In fact there are several service Kuvasz. One woman is now getting her second wheelchair Kuvasz.
(3) Trainability: Now I can't speak for how fast all Kuvasz learn but after having handle a few hundred dogs - everything from chihuahuas to Danes and an infinite number of crossses in all these years, of all the dogs that I have handled, this 7 month old Kuvasz is one of the 3 smartest and also one of the 3 or 4 most trainable.
On the trainability
- at 5 months started going to the grocery store on short trips - never touched, never fussed, heeled and sat. Also library to get books - same behavior after getting petted by everyone there.
- at 6 months solid on hand signals for down, sit, stand, heel and come (at 100 feeet on a public beach at the hieght of tourist season.)
- at 6 1/2 months first restuarant trip. Went down, stayed down (except when the staff all came over to hug, pet and give treats to the pup's delight) and stayed absolutely quiet. Oh yes, and fell asleep.
- at 6 1/2 months learned to jog nicely next to my old non-shift bike. (he wanted to go faster than I can - we compromised by agreeing to my slow motion speed.) Goes perfectly on my right (away from cars) down an averagely busy road in a Great Lakes summer tourist town.
- at 7 months doing the whole 2 week grocery stock up trip complete with cart. Holds the down stays next to the cart while I moved back and forth to the shelves in his view . (I'm talking a down/stay with his head between his feet.)
- at 7 1/4 months doing 20 foot thrown retreives on land and into chest deep water.
- at 7 3/4 months working "find" retreives of the dumbbell indoors. (view of it blocked by blanket hanging off couch, etc.)
- 7 3/4 months starting to do utility obdeience level hand signals at 8' - the stand to down to sit to come stuff.
I use no pinch collar and weigh all of 95 lbs and he is close to 70 lbs plus. Wanna see the pictures of him doing this stuff? I take them for my co-owner/breeder. And, oh yes, he was 16 weeks when he came home and had not been taught much beyond coming back when his name was called and a little walking on a leash. Now he considers it a reward for behavior to be allowed to do retrieves.
The Kuvasz who didn't "get it" in obedience that you saw. The Kuvasz people who are tryng to do obedience performance that I have encountered have two fundamental problems. (a) They have not much of a clue about the concepts of alpha and dominance while handling a breed that gets very dominant. A lot of them have never trained anything in obedience or if they have it was a golden or something similar.; and (b) They are trying to motivate these dogs with food. Drop a hot dog in 3 inches of water with a Kuvasz watching, let him go for it,, and only 10% will get their noses wet to get the hot dog. (Not a water breed at all.) Not exactly a food motivated breed if they really don't want to do something. If not food, than it is that clicker thing - you know, the demented cricket noise because the handler doesn't know how to time praise. Mnay also have a problem with drilling these dogs like they were a Golden or similar bred that will do the constant repetition. I use the "Rule of 3" Do it 3 times, and I'll quit - probably come back for more later in the day - but still quit for that period of time. Drill them and they shut down - no 1/2 hour heeling practice here unless it is a stimulating environment - and I don't mean going around and around on rubber mattes with other dogs. My pup learned 85% of his heeling by going through town on a busy summer day.
Breed problem on trainability - (1) not a breed for a novice or inexperienced handler or for a non-dominant handler. (2) Difficult breed to motivate unless you can be dominate and use the Pack drive - a fine line to walk between too much and too little of praise (verbal physical) and correcton.
(4) Kuvasz and aggression: That is a major factor for anyone who has one. These dogs must be socialized - and I don't mean a few walks around the block. The aggression comes from the high Fight Drive (necessary for guarding herds, not so great with harmless stranger or dogs.)
This a 3 part problem.
The first is one I mentioned in the earlier post. The over-producing breeder who only really cares about conformation Chmpshps- period. This is someone who sells most of the Kuvasz in the country to first-time Kuvasz puppy people. Solution: find a different breeder. Every Kuvasz I have heard about or met who has aggression issues seems to go back to that kennel.
Secondly, this is a breed that wants to be the alpha. Combine this wth the high fight drive and it gets sticky. Okay, you get those in a lot of breeds. The problem is that the owners don't or won't out alpha the dog and put it across that such behavior will not be tolerated by the pack leader, the handler. Deliver the message and they are fine.
The third problem is the failure to really socialize the dog. Without lots and lots and lots of socialization, they see threats everywhere and react accordingly. Properly socialized, they can be as casual with people as a conformation bred Golden.
My 7 month old is so socialized he is embarassing at this point. He now has hopes that each new dog he is allowed to meet would like to play and gets that "maybe - can I, can I " expression. He goes along next to me casting longing glances at passers-by hoping they will notice him, stop and ask to pet him. If they pet him, it is 50-50 whether he is going to go on to his back and beg for a tummy rub. Teaching him the command "visit" allows him as a carry-dog to be released to get petted by people. It is socialization and a reward (in his eyes - he has become a ham for admiration.)
Of course in a high-tourist summer resort town, he did meet-and-greet with roughly 30 people a day when we would be out and about which was 4 -5 days a week what with having the beach to hang on.
Breed drawback: Not the breed for someone who isn't going to spend the time and effort. If you have one who is way aggressive and dominant, back to the strong (personality as opposed to physical)handler issue.
Oh yes, and without a prey drive - virtually zilch- as I said in an earlier post, teaching the retreive is "challenging" and "positive motivation" alone is going no where. On the other hand from step 1 of putting dumbbell in the mouth to thrown 20' retrieves only took 5 weeks and 4 knock-down dragouts (and I'm the one who hit the ground literally when it came to picking up the dumbbell from the dirt as oppossed to the floor inside - but I won that day and that was the end of it on the "I'm not going to do that.") I consider 5 weeks to be fast as I use 11 steps before I throw the dumbbell more than 5 feet - and when I'm done, my dogs retreive even if it is in a bush and there is a snowstorm with a train roaring past.
I'm not saying all Kuvasz are like my 7 month old. I'm saying a lot of them could be but are not because of the owner/handler deficiencies. I would never ever recommend this breed to anyone who (1) wasn't experienced or (2) at the very least wasn't willing to find a trainer (and I don't mean the "good boy, have a cookie - click - don't correct physically type) and absolutely commit to following instructions. Too many people get this breed thinking they look like a white Golden Retreiver. I've handled and trained many Goldens - from a high prey/pack/fight field bred to the ultimate OTCH type - none of them are remotely the same to working a Kuvasz.
Ann
ASA
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