I absolutely hate kids with dogs pictures. This would rule these guys out right now.

Hi guys,

- I know that the dog is imported from Poland but know nothing about his bloodlines, Is the breeder likely to be questionable?
- I have also spoken to the National Training inspectorate for security dog users in the UK and their director has e-mailed me a list of things to ask & what to look for, In addition he has also stated that this trainer is in his opinion the most reputable security & PPD trainer in the country. That has to be a good thing.
I know that last night he was training his dogs in the woods as I spoke to him at midnight. From speaking to him I get a generally good gut feeling which I never felt when talking to other trainers here.
Also, Why should there not be a photo of dogs and kids, I am a family man and the dog will be our family companion/protector and that is the product which he is selling.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />Bloodlines, and PPD, are like oil and water, they don’t mix. With selection of a dog, now if you are serious about dog training for PPD then the selection of bloodlines is a complete myth: “a Dog is not a dog without papers” thinking. Well here is a short little personal experience to totally throw this little myth over board. We have 79 dogs doing Police work, and not one of them has papers.

This is what they – the bloodline Guru’s don’t tell you – about breeding with lines...The best thorough breeds are not always the best working dogs, this works like a pendulum when breeding to enhance a certain trait in a dog; we start swinging traits from side to side, from strong to weak... What you get as hyper strong scent capability through breeding, in the dog with lines, that are strong scent driven, on the one side for instance. Will have in the same dog an exact opposite trait developing such as very weak nerves, due to enhance breeding, or line breeding, this is good for a blood hound program, for example, but bad for a PPD program, the material is tarnished to begin with..

This happens when breeders mix bloodlines, it heightens one characteristic, but something has to give way, or be sacrificed in turn, to get the better-heightened attribute of a certain desired trait. Where with normal breeds these characteristics have more or less leveled out, or come in to balance. We require balance - the lights must be on.

This brings me to which type drive dog is selected for PPD work, - choosing a very high driven or medium high driven dog- hot or medium temperament. Over a versatile balanced dog which will not necessarily be extremely driven; in fact, extreme drive if not backed by excellent handling skills, which is only found with experienced handlers and trainers and a balanced training program will frequently work against the dog and his handler in PPD. The reason why dogs with high drive is pushed by most trainers is because they train easier, because it’s easier to reward them, stimulate them in pray drive for instance – with the ball reward- it also requires a handler with a lot of animal behavior background. Your competition dogs – Fact

Remember this when trainers choose dogs for PPD training, the rules are different to sport. Very few actually realize this aspect, you do not just look at the dogs aggression, the size, the build, the breed, the pedigree, the drive – the bloodlines, For PPD trainers blood is blood, and it is normally their blood, that runs down their bodies in lines, this is as close to bloodlines we get. The things that talk to you - (the cool factor) - all on the outside are the bonus, so if you get a true pedigree that makes selection, you will be one of the very few – lucky ones – to have the best of both worlds, in one dog. (The most important thing here is your security and that of your family) you need the things under the skin, that which makes a good PPD. For a breeder this is mostly the only requirement, the color, build, and the pedigree – the bloodline – most bloodlines are just a 1000 volts of drive and no lights - some one said etc. You need a dog with the lights on, and some volts yes. These are the traits that would sell breeders dogs, trainers look from a totally different paradigm, breeders want to make name, get titles, and would love to be able to sell their dogs at the price you are paying. PPD is not a Schutzhund, it’s a PPD, trophies and medals and media publicity, please if this appeals to you, erase it immediately.

As for testing the dog, test him in your house, on your property. I suspect this Trainer too would suggest this, and has a 100% buyback policy if you are not happy, which is to say if you are not satisfied he will reimburse you in full, all the kennels here have them standard, for trained dogs that is. (Forgive the macho keyboard cowboys, they don’t buy many dogs that are trained, but still they feel they can give advice. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Dave - Jeff gave you the answer to that one "I absolutely hate kids". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

No, the "I hate kids" is not the answer. It's about professionalism. And pictures of PPD's and kids on a site are a lame advertising device usually used by amateurs and show that the vendor is not serious ( and usually not knowledgeable, either ) about their dogs.

And I'm in agreement with Jeff there, photo's like that would be an instants disqualification for the purchase of a serious PPD in my book.

Hi to everyone again!
First, Thanks to you all for your opinions, you are all giving me food for thought.
I spoke to the trainer again today and just thought I would pass on the info he gave me so that you may comment if you wish.
-The dog is being trained by a woman who works for him (under his guidance), she has a young family. She has said that the dog is reliable with her kids and she would have him if she did not already have a dog. Good.
-The dog has not been trained in schutzund (I asked as I didn't want a dog that was sleeve crazy), he will prove this to me by acting as an agressor in a quiet voice and allowing me to put the dog into 'alert' mode, without a sleeve.
-The handover with the dog will be 2 days & he insists that my wife and daughter are there so that he can see the dog interacting with them.
-He has offered to replace the dog if we find that he is not suitable when we get home. He has also offered telephone support for as long as we need it.
-He generally trains his dogs to do PPD work on-leash for legal reasons but this particular dog has been there for 8 months and is capable of doing it off-leash.
-The dog was brought up with a family in Poland as a pup.
-He says the dog is aloof with strangers, ie. he will not make a fuss of people but generally ignore them. He does however make a fuss of people he knows. He also said that whilst the dog works for and is friendly with his male staff, as soon as his female handler comes on the scene he his her best mate and they don't exist. Is this likley to affect the dogs ability to bond with me?(Male) or is it just because this woman is his trainer?
-The dog is trained in all obedience commands & protection work but has been living in a kennel for approx.8 months and he says we will need to teach it the 'bed' command etc as it will be living in our house. In your opinions, Will the dog be receptive to this?

Thats about it folks.
I welcome your comments.
Here is a link to the dog also:
http://www.a1k9.co.uk/matrix-details.asp?p_id=913

Cheers
Dave

Forgot to mention.
My wife & I have been around dogs from birth until about 5 years ago.
My mother has a dog sitting business, when owners go on holiday their dogs come and stay with her, up to 5 dogs at a time of all breeds in the house(and I mean all breeds at once), so I learned pretty quick how to live & deal with dog squabbles. Although a trained ppd is another matter, I guess that he's been taught that he's allowed to win an argument so I may have to use different tactics, any tips?
My wife also had 2 GSD's as a child/teenager growing up.
We love dogs and are not buying this dog purely as a tool, he will be our family pet and companion first, protector second. Is it true that the way these dogs are trained is that its a game(bite work, etc)? they generally seem to be wagging their tails in the videos I have seen on some sites. If so, does this make them more aggressive than the average family dog? My interpretation is that they have just been taught a different game to most and they find it fun.
I know, I'm asking to be shot down in flames here, but I'm happy to be educated.
Cheers again
Dave

wooow that is a nice price.... for that $$ I almost expect my dog to wash my dishes...(just a joke)
Great point, I have seen so called PPD.. Just because they had "some" training in bite work and obedience it does not meant they are ready. ... and 12 mos old..still a pup? I dont like that I think you cal it the gutt feeling.. And you are right where is the proven pedigree/line Who are those dogs?
But I have heard that Poland is going forward and breeding good working lines, I just dont know how much truth is in it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Hi Dave, I'm no expert, but i can tell you one thing, alert mode to an aggressor doesn't mean the dog will bite him. My adult male looks ferocious when i alert him, but if it came down to it, he'd be running the other way like an olympic sprinter <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. If you are going to be there for 2 days, have him work the dog, and then you can see for yourself what the dog can and can't do, good luck, AL

Ok. You say this dog was brought up with a family in Poland, and that this guy has had him for 2 years. But according to the site you gave, he is only 20 months old - not even two years old yet. What's the deal??