Quote:

Cesar is having a seminar here in St. Louis sometime in November. I plan to attend to get a little more insight on him. It will be very interesting to see if his methods are openly discussed in front of a group of people that, I suspect, will be predominantely "furkid" folks.
I'd be interested in comments about his DVD also.

IMO, his DVD is an overall view of how to live with a dog. It's geared toward pet owners who tend not to assume pack leadership and not to discipline and exercise their pet dogs. For that purpose, I thought it was terrific, and have recommended it to beginner pet owners. It's *not* a training video, IMO. It's not meant to be, I don't think. It's more a discussion of pack structure.

According to his staff, the book due out next month will be much wider in scope.

I haven't been to a seminar in some time (way back before his TV shows were so well-known......I'm not sure whether it was even on yet), and at that time, at least, he was absolutely up-front about training tools. He discussed them all.

I like his TV show a lot, but it's obvious that there's a *lot* of editing done. I thought Ed Frawley's comments about Friday's new episode were exactly right on the money (of course!), and in fact I emailed a guy on CM's staff who sends out newsletters and other emails to people who have attended seminars, ordered books, or joined the website. I gave him my opinion that it did no good to CM's reputation to try to hide a training tool from the viewer, ever, and that this instance was the worst I had seen. He emailed back that he had forwarded the comment to the producer and that they had promised him a reply.

We'll just see whether the promised reply is a real one, or a "thank you for your viewpoint" thing.

 Quote:

......I'd be interested in comments about his DVD also.

I re-read my own answer to this (my personal opinion), and I might not have said this part clearly: The DVD is very good for what it's meant to be, but, IMO, it's not geared toward people like you, OED Bob, or any other experienced trainer of your ilk. It's geared toward the furkid crowd, as you put it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

His seminar (years ago), changed my basic obedience training. When I saw him in action, I had several "aha" moments. I admire him enormously. He sometimes seems to be part dog.

Someone gave me his DVD so I can't be upset about it being a waste of my money. Altho I like him, I'd agree with Connie's opinion on the DVD. It might be a good choice for someone who knew nothing about him or hadn't seen his programs. I got it toward the end of his first season, so I really didn't hear anything that hadn't been touched on in his episodes. The main portion of the DVD is a very basic presentation about his approach and methods. There are no demonstations or dogs involved. He's just shown giving a talk in front of a small group. Then there are some "bonus features" that have no training value, like his original promotional video and "Feeding time with Cesar's Pack" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I haven't talked to anyone who's been to one of his seminars. I considered going to one in the L. A. area recently, but decided it was a little steep for a 3-hr event which I'm only assuming was probably going to be directed more toward the basics of his work. I'm sure if you check with his people, you could get more specifics about the seminar content.

Connie sent me a copy of the email from Cesars producers concerning using a remote collar on Spike - the black German Shepherd.

They admitted that Spike had a remote collar on and that Cesar wanted to explain this on the program but that part was edited out because of alledged groups who would like to see this show kicked off TV.

I have a couple of thoughts on this. Shame on the producers. SHAME ON THE EDITORS !!! Where does the credability go when you scam the viewer. Sorry I can't buy into the excuse.

How could I keep my credability if I produce a dog training video and played these kinds of games? I can't hide how I correct a dog in my DVDs just because these PETA ASS HOLES don't like the fact that a dog gets a high level remote collar correction when it needs it.

Remember this was not a case of Cesar using a collar when he should not have. This dog needed a collar. This is a case of hiding the fact that it was used.

My personal feeling is he did not use the collar correctly. Thats was obvious in the program. The stimulation was too high for that dog and what he was trying to do. But in his defense - using a collar is a case of determining a working level and once its usded on avoidance problems the problem goes away very quickly.

In a way I feel sorry for Cesar. He obviously is a nice guy and a very good dog behaviorist that understands pack behavior, but he has lost control of the project that represents his name.

 Quote:

Connie sent me a copy of the email from Cesars producers concerning using a remote collar on Spike - the black German Shepherd.

They admitted that Spike had a remote collar on and that Cesar wanted to explain this on the program but that part was edited out because of alledged groups who would like to see this show kicked off TV.

I have a couple of thoughts on this. Shame on the producers. SHAME ON THE EDITORS !!! Where does the credability go when you scam the viewer. Sorry I can't buy into the excuse.

How could I keep my credability if I produce a dog training video and played these kinds of games? I can't hide how I correct a dog in my DVDs just because these PETA ASS HOLES don't like the fact that a dog gets a high level remote collar correction when it needs it.

Remember this was not a case of Cesar using a collar when he should not have. This dog needed a collar. This is a case of hiding the fact that it was used.

My personal feeling is he did not use the collar correctly. Thats was obvious in the program. The stimulation was too high for that dog and what he was trying to do. But in his defense - using a collar is a case of determining a working level and once its usded on avoidance problems the problem goes away very quickly.

In a way I feel sorry for Cesar. He obviously is a nice guy and a very good dog behaviorist that understands pack behavior, but he has lost control of the project that represents his name.

I feel sorry that a very good bahaviorist has lost so much control of his own project, too.

Of course, they didn't use the term PETA, but I am sure that many of us will have that same conclusion.

I was gratified, regardless of the content, that his office went to the trouble of asking the producers for an explanation and then sending it to me when I asked for one, and that they were also very prompt about it.

But yes -- of course Ed is correct that when we know we are right we have to be open about it and take a stand.........no matter who might be ready to use it against us.

This board in particular is open about methods, explanations, and beliefs, like the Leerburg site itself, and maybe the producers of The Dog Whisperer will start reading it and thinking about the fact that they have (or had) a sizeable audience composed of serious (and humane) trainers who understand that animals are not furry humans.

I think Cesar should release a dvd set or two with the full details on each episode, explaining the training techniques AND equipment he uses, the theories behind them all and why he uses them, also he should explain fully why certain things should be better left to professionals (alpha rolls and perhaps how to perform one correctly in order to prevent bites). I'd also like to see him explain in detail how he identifies particular behaviors and divide them into fear/aggression/dominance/submission. Devoting time to education on children and dogs and responsible ownership would also be a welcome addition. A dvd set that doesn't just entertain people, but truly EDUCATE them on dog ownership.

I really wish he would take that step. His show is very good overall (lots even I don't agree on, such as how he deals with extremely fearful animals in such a short period of time) but he REALLY needs to expand more on it. I know he can't on TV, he risks being thrown off air due to rubbing a few people the wrong way (yay FCC/PETA/etc), but he SHOULD on dvd!

 Quote:

I think Cesar should release a dvd set or two with the full details on each episode, .....

What an excellent idea! And his office will probably now be reading this forum. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What a good point earlier, too, about "Do not try at home" being insufficient.

Even the fact that every episode is preceded by a 45-minute walk with CM and the dog should probably be mentioned, to point out that there is no way for the work he does to be represented fully in a short TV segment. Even an announcement that background and detail on each episode might be found at ----- whatever.

Don't lose sight of the fact that the director and producer of Dog Whisperer (or any other commercial program)are, above all, selling commercial time.

Ed, however, is training dogs.

When someone like Ed (dog-training) accepts the format of having a television show (commercial-selling) things get pretty cloudy and distorted, such as is the case with Cesar.

Never forget that the purpose of commercial television is to sell commercial time (period)

Anne

 Quote:

Never forget that the purpose of commercial television is to sell commercial time (period)

Sometimes it is easy to forget that. We, here in America, need to remember that while we are watching the news.

Political stuff aside, Mr. Milan's show is geared for those 90% to 95% of dog owners that just want there dog to not bite them, not bite their kids, not bite their neighbors, not chew the furniture, go potty outside, and to stop eating the garbage. I hazard a guess that most of those around this forum expect all that and a whole lot more from our dogs.

For me, I'll keep recording the show if only to see how out of control people will allow their dogs to get. Call me sick, I do find entertainment in that. Well, as long as they don't live around me.

lol well said Chris!

I too LOVE watching dummies struggle with their pooches. Not being anywhere near an experienced dog handler myself (just 6 or so months), I really can't understand why these people let their dog dominate them as I'm not willing to put up with bad behaviour.

However I say the same things every week watching these programs and my wife thinks I have a loop in my head/short circuit somewhere and I STILL keep watching....it's funny!

John