 Re: Serious Separation Anxiety
[Re: Catherine Coy ]
#106719 - 05/16/2006 09:55 PM |
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Because dog's aren't children. That's what they do, it's in their temprement. If you don't want the dog to follow you around then kick the dog everytime you take him outta the crate, he'll soon learn that being with mommy isn't fun. If you want a dog who lays in the living room and doesn't care where you are then you got the wrong dog. Thru training you can teach the dog to "go to their place" but this takes alot of time and patience. I can tell my boy to go to the crate n stay there with the door open n he'll lay down in his crate, but that's against his natural instinct, he wants to come out and follow me when I leave the room. Remember, dogs are pack animals, not kids. Packs travel together, if the dog has a strong pack instinct they are gonna wanna be with their people all the time.
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Re: Serious Separation Anxiety
[Re: Catherine Coy ]
#106720 - 05/16/2006 10:03 PM |
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I'm supposed to take the dog for even more and longer walks (against my own daily schedule)
If your schedule doesn't permit you owning a dog then don't own a dog, or get one of those big lazy dogs that never moves.
and let her suffer panic attacks in a crate rather than in a room.
She will learn to love her crate, you should watch my high drive unlimited-energy puppy try to get outta her crate when she wants out, she'll practically knock it over sideways. Just ignore it, the dog will settle down. When they settle down you can reward them for their silence and ignore them when they freak out.
Should she break off her UPPER front teeth, too, trying to get out of a crate?
If she's a bar chewer then get the plastic crates, I've yet to see a dog try to chew the door on those unless they're tiny dogs who's nose fits entirely thru the squares.
As you can see, I'm frustrated beyond belief, both by Sandy's behavior and by suggestions that "all" I have to do is exercise her more and get a crate!
Well that's what it takes to own a certain type of dog. If your dog can't fit your lifestyle then rehome the dog because it's not healthy for the dog to be around someone who has so little patience for her mentality and it's not healthy for you to stress out so much over the dog.
I'm thinkin' DRUGS! For me! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Re-home the dog. If your schedule doesn't permit owning the dog then the dog isn't the right fit for your lifestyle. This is a huge mistake people make every day when choosing a breed for the wrong reasons, then later finding out that the dog is too high energy or high maintanence for them. Most people on this board own high energy high drive german shepherds, malinois, dutch sheperds etc, many of those dogs never sit still, they're always busy unless they're in the crate, they follow their handlers around 24 hours a day if not crated, n will dig thru drywall to get out of the bathroom if you decide to confine them to a small room rather than a crate. This stuff is daily routine for many of us because we understood what we were in for before getting the dog. You're clearly not prepared to deal with a dog that needs her energy expelled and confinement to be happy. There's lots of nice dogs in shelters who are lazy boring dogs that can pretend to be an ornament, why don't you get one of those?
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Re: Serious Separation Anxiety
[Re: Catherine Coy ]
#106721 - 05/16/2006 10:04 PM |
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Reg: 10-20-2005
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I don't think walks are cutting it. Try running the dog or playing fetch. Does the dog like to chase things? Also doing OB with the dog could tire it's little mind...
Do they sell safe crates for dogs with similar issues? It's worth looking into. Maybe you could stick it in a heavy duty cat carrier?
You could get some kind of doggy prozac, but I'm sure it's costly.
I have a 135 lb dog that follows me around. I even wake up every morning to him laying on top of me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'll take that over the house wrecking thing any day.
If you don't get a handle on this problem quickly, you're going to end up hating this dogs guts for a long time... even after it's fixed. Seriously consider following the advice everyone's given or contemplate returning the dog. I feel for you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Good luck <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Serious Separation Anxiety
[Re: Catherine Coy ]
#106722 - 05/16/2006 10:07 PM |
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Reg: 02-05-2006
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I must agree with what was said in previous posts about your attitude affecting the dog. Your attitude is thick in your posts. Resentment hurts. It hurts people it hurts dogs.
This dog, from what you've said has been through *a lot* in just the short time you've had it. God only knows what it's been through prior to your attitude problem.
My suggestion to you is to try some of the suggestions you've been reading here.
However, you have already eluded to the fact that you're thinking about giving the dog back up for adoption. You're like the type of person who "can't find a place to live so you gotta get rid of the dog" A dog is a commitment! (yes, there are exceptions, obviously, but come on...)
Please step outside of this problem and step into a solution. One that works for you and for the dog. What have you tried today? Aside from a sitter?
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Re: Serious Separation Anxiety
[Re: Catherine Coy ]
#106723 - 05/16/2006 10:09 PM |
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Catherine,
You are absolutely correct that simply shoving your dog in a crate would only make the whole situation worse. However, training your dog to accept the kennel as a bed and using anti-anxiety and/or sedative type supplements and/or medication during trianing will make a large difference, over time.
If you kennel train correctly, the dog will never attempt to break out of the crate. It takes a long time before you actually use the crate as a means of confinement. Before that part the crate is a place to eat, get treats and sleep. You wouldn't confine the dog until the dog is choosing to stay in the crate on its own.
The exercise is extremely important. It is demonstrated in many studies to be equal or greater in effect than medication. It relieves stress, gives the dog a task and reduces reactivity.
Longer walks may not do the trick. I don't know what your dog likes to do (other than follow you around) but playing fetch is effective and also teaches your dog than fun things can happen away from you (very valuable). Some dogs can jump up and down for treats repeatedly, run up and down stairs, wear a weighted vest (also reduces reactivity) or participate in a canine sport. Some trainers use treadmills. Maybe your dog enjoys swimming. I make play bow postures and my dog runs in circles around me. Works for me, fun for her...
Exercise, kennel training and possibly short-term medication is a way to set your dog up so that desensitization will be sucessful.
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Re: Serious Separation Anxiety
[Re: Catherine Coy ]
#106724 - 05/16/2006 10:16 PM |
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I dont mean to sound disrespectful, but it seems as though youre almost indifferent to the dog?
What the....?!
Sandy sleeps with me, sits at my feet as I work all day, I pet her frequently, talk to her, and she rides in my car WHEREVER I go. I play with her, take her for walks 2x/day, she has the best nutrition and I have spent THOUSANDS in medical care. My friend said, "When I die, I want to come back as your dog." I love this dog dearly, yet you ask, "have you bonded with her?" Well, as well as I can with a dog who has completely taken away my life as I knew it.
Where do you live? I'll send her to you so you can see what it's like to live with an SA dog.
By the way, she's quite obedient; knows stay, sit, fetch, stop, heel, shake and come. So don't say it's a "training" issue. It's not.
http://www.cochranehumane.ca/html/resources/sepanx.htm
Charlie was a delightful dog in almost every way. He played gently with the children, barked but never growled at strangers, could shake hands and catch a ball, and graduated at the top of his obedience class. He was considered a member of the family and even slept at the foot of his owners' bed. But the family didn't think they could keep him and doubted that they could find another home for him. Whenever Charlie was left alone he chewed up the woodwork, howled, and sometimes even urinated and defecated. He never behaved this way when someone was home for him, but the family couldn't ensure that he always had company and they didn't think that they could cope with these disturbing behaviors any longer.
The Use of Crates: A Cautionary Note
A common recommendation for controlling disruptive behaviors in the absence of the owner, is putting the dog in a crate. Whereas crates can be effective in housebreaking puppies and preventing puppy chewing, their use in the treatment of separation anxiety problems is usually counterproductive. The animal will still be distressed at being alone and probably will engage in anxiety responses in the crate. It may urinate, defecate, howl or even attempt to escape from the crate and thus injure itself. A crate can be used in dogs with a separation anxiety problem only if the dog is first gradually accustomed to spending time in the crate and then gradually accustomed to being alone in the crate.
Even though dogs do sleep many hours per day and sometimes like to sleep in enclosed spaces, they usually change position frequently. Contrary to what many dog "behavior" books state, wolves and dogs are not den-dwelling creatures: they do not naturally spend day after day in small enclosures.
It is therefore debatable how comfortable the dog will be in a small crate for as long as 8 to 12 hours. Another disadvantage to using crates is that the animal's watchdog capabilities are obviously reduced.
Obedience School
Obedience training does not directly influence separation anxiety. Many dogs with this problem have been to obedience school and have done quite well. Sending the dog out of the home to a training facility for several weeks will not eliminate the problem and is likely to make it worse. Separation anxiety is not the result of disobedience or lack of training. It is an emotional response.
I'd really like to hear from a few people who have HANDS-ON experience with SUCCESSFULLY and FULLY overcoming this issue.
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Re: Serious Separation Anxiety
[Re: Michele McAtee ]
#106725 - 05/16/2006 10:18 PM |
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I think you need to sit down for a night and seriously THINK about this dog. Are you willing to make the commitment, such as jogging with this dog every morning before you leave to the point that you practically have to drag the dog back because she's pooped out? Are you ready to come home after work/shopping/whatever to have to exercise the dog even more through training and playtime and more walks? How about committing to crate training and being patient that the dog WILL scream and fuss when first in the crate, knowing that you'll probably spend many hours sitting by the dog, reading a book or watching TV so it can learn that quiet time in the crate doesn't always mean that you're going to leave? How about taking the time to find a crate that fits the car so your car's interior doesn't look like shredded wheat? If you physically or whatever can't commit to the full amount of exercise she needs, will you find alternate means, such as a treadmill, to run her energy dry so she is relaxed and happy? How about finding a fun program for the two of you such as agility and obedience?
All the wheatens I've known were clingy and uppity. That doesn't mean that they're difficult to live with, just that you will have a second shadow and one that needs lots of mental and physical stimulation. This kind of thing is very beneficial for the human too as it exercises our minds as well as our bodies (and I'm sure most of us can all use more exercise, myself definitely included!) Are you ready to invest money and time in a myriad of books, dog forums, and maybe even sessions of "The Dog Whisperer" to gain further ideas and insight into your dog's behavior?
If not, then now you must get ready! If you feel this absolutely will not work, you must be brutally honest with yourself. Maybe the dog would do better in an active home with either a stay-at-home family member or one who wishes to be active in doggy sports. You could find a wheaten rescue to work with and keep the dog while a suitable match is found.
Note that the separation anxiety issue may only be temporary. Once the dog is secure in a routine, understanding that you are the undisputed leader, knowing that you always come back, she may settle down to be a model dog. You'll only know by working with her.
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Re: Serious Separation Anxiety
[Re: Anne Vaini ]
#106726 - 05/16/2006 10:19 PM |
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Reg: 03-24-2006
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Loc: Connecticut
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There's a lot of good advice here. Owning any dog requires a lot of work (by the owner!). With all due respect, if you are (for whatever reason) unable or unwilling to follow the advice posted - then I completely agree with Mike. Re-home this dog.
A great friend and training mentor of mine always told prospective new dog owners: "If you want a hobby, get a dog. If you want a 'pet,' get a cat."
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Re: Serious Separation Anxiety
[Re: Catherine Coy ]
#106727 - 05/16/2006 10:22 PM |
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Reg: 04-27-2004
Posts: 456
Loc: Central FL
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Sandy sleeps with me, sits at my feet as I work all day, I pet her frequently, talk to her, and she rides in my car WHEREVER I go. I play with her, take her for walks 2x/day, she has the best nutrition and I have spent THOUSANDS in medical care. My friend said, "When I die, I want to come back as your dog." I love this dog dearly, yet you ask, "have you bonded with her?" Well, as well as I can with a dog who has completely taken away my life as I knew it.
Where do you live? I'll send her to you so you can see what it's like to live with an SA dog.
By the way, she's quite obedient; knows stay, sit, fetch, stop, heel, shake and come. So don't say it's a "training" issue. It's not.
I would say it's a training issue. When do you pet her and soothe her? Do you pet her when she's being quiet and calm or do you go to soothe and pet her when she's being a dork? If it's the latter, you're training her to put up a hissy fit! I would let go of petting her frequently. Dogs need firm, fair leaders, exercise, and discpline first, affection only after all that has been satisfied. Stop sleeping with her on the bed, only let her sleep on the floor in her crate or tethered on a rug if she must be in your room.
Personally, I'd like to know more details about how you live with this dog. I have a sneaking suspicion that she believes SHE owns YOU, not the other way around!
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Re: Serious Separation Anxiety
[Re: Catherine Coy ]
#106728 - 05/16/2006 10:26 PM |
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Loc: Columbia, MO
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I'm not trying to be stubborn or not listen to your suggestions, but let me get this straight. I'm supposed to take the dog for even more and longer walks (against my own daily schedule)
Is the only real exercise this dog is getting is walks? Breeds or mixes that are herding, working, hounds, or sporting breeds can sometimes need 2-4 hours of full out running each and every day before they'll slow down. My Malinois needs about an hour of full out running plus 15-30 minutes of mental exercise of obedience every day or he will tear up my house plus we've started Schutzhund two days a week as well. I say get this dog into agility, flyball, dog scootering, hiking, jogging, or something where it actually runs and has a job to do.
"You don't have to train a dog as much as you have to train a human."--Cesar Millan |
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