carol, thanks, i will watch for those. her ears are almost ALWAYS erect and forward. but that will be so helpful, luc seems to have the world's most obvious body language compared to her.

jennifer - wow! that's a lot of great info/suggestions. what bugged me with the lab is that i thought she was going to be well-behaved and i thought i was relaxed - but perhaps something small still crept through to her.

she doesn't turn aggressive towards me when she escalates, but it could happen and regardless, it's not good.

teagan is generally a good dog - and i've had her for 2.5 weeks now, i know she's still settling, but i can't allow her to settle into aggression towards other dogs as a pattern and i do want to be careful w/the prong/escalating. the trainers i was going to w/luc did show me how to correct w/a prong, but like i said - i think it's escalated the few times i've been a bit slow.

i agree we need to do more one-on-one walks. i've been so excited she and luc are doing well together i've been constantly taking them out together to reinforce that. we do do obed. in the park while luc has to hold a long sit or down, and the dogs have to sit before entering the park, but i get what you're saying about the walk being as much an obed. exercise as it is exercise exercise. i used to do that with luc, for some reason that didn't occur to me w/her. obviously they have to heel and sit at lights and stuff, but that's it.

Oh yeah I distracted myself. Thanks for mentioning that Carol.

Close mouthed, lips pursed, ears forward and up, head up, intense focuse on the animal/dog, tail possition is a big indicator. If her tail goes up and tops wagging or wags less ot very stiffly, or develops a "kink" in it. Also watch her legs, if her movements become stiff, like she has no joints in her legs. When the shoulders/body start to follow where the head is pointed you need to definitely give a correction or redirect her attention as she has committed to her action and is begining to follow through. "Puffing up" is a huge red flag that she is displaying dominant and aggressive posture towards the other dog.

If her movements become sneaky-looking in conjunction with the ears forward/eyes intense, if she walks softer or less deliberately then you know it is prey response (as towards a small animal/small dog) and can judge your action/correction from there.

Also to note .. when a dog sits and yawns with ears back and avoids looking at her, you know she is giving off body language that says "I AM QUEEN! OFF WITH HER HEAD!" (aka aggression haha) as that is a dog's way of diffusing another dog. If you don't see her body language at first, but notice the other dog she is focused on become relaxed, sit, and give a large stretchy yawn with ears back and calm, you know to look at her to see what she is doing, and take a mental note.

excellent, thanks. the prey response is the one thing i can figure out, b/c she lowers down and sort of stalks along.

she normally has a lot of the body language indicators you've raised....maybe that's my problem, i'm looking for a change in her body language when she sees another dog, and all those indicators are already there. man am i happy she and luc are fine loose together so far (obvs. i continue to heavily monitor that though) (actually, the one time she got upset with him, when he and i got into a fight, is the one time she was vocal, whining and yelping, and she was obvious/in his face - it seemed to be an obvious pack order correction on her part).

she keeps her mouth closed, ears up/forward, intense focus (on pretty well everything she sees, people included, but she doesn't get snotty with them, just dogs). her tail is often up but not particularly loose (here i compare to luc who looks like he's about to die of happiness with it wagging around, and yup, he's always got his mouth open and his ears rarely forward (except when he notices her watching something and copies her).

and that teagan regularly gives off 'I AM QUEEN!' body language easily explains why holly automatically acts differently when teagan is around then how she did when it was just luc.

since we've gone a bit off-topic, can i ask - when i have her with me on leash in the house, and she watches the cats etc - i distract her, do 'leave it!' if she's being overly interested, but if she's sitting quietly watching them, should i allow this? same with the rabbits, if i'm in the den with her, she can see them, but if she's lying down relaxing i've thought that was maybe okay - ?????

Jennifer, if her body language and expression are that of a relaxed dog, then yes it should be fine, but I would always supervise and watch her.

Relaxed would be, mouth open in a relaxed even pant, eyes partially closed or just relaxed (not bulging out of her head) and ears sideways, one one ear sideways, or back/loose. I would only correct her if her attitude changes and she slips into prey drive with her stare becoming intense and her attention focused on them. Usually this is when they make a sudden movement. She could just be reacting to the sudden noise and movement and immediately relax again. I would observe her to take note.

I would personally correct any intense interest in them, even if it was just a reaction to the sudden noise and movement, to desensitize her to their movements and sound - so ensure one of those times the cat zips across the room to chase a fly that she doesn't follow through with the initial interest and chase the cat.

I have ferrets, have always had cats, and have had birds, and various other fast moving small animals. I even had 2 baby raccoons at one time (rehab) and with the dogs I have, the rules are in the house there is no small prey, only small things that must be ignored. Cajun was/is very drivey, but my kitten and 2 ferrets could run all over the place, around, on top of, and right in front of him and he would just yawn and go to sleep. But you get out that tug or bite pillow and yeehaw!

perfect, thanks! i'm doing (or trying to) pretty well that currently.

and i'm working on her understanding that i bring out the toys and initiate play, and that yup - the cats, rabbits (she can't see the guinea pigs but she can hear them) - those are things you leave alone, they're mine, and i touch them, not her.

i'm really impressed you rehabbed raccoons! cool! i trapped an injured raccoon once but he was very seriously injured

Yeah, these little guys... ah my stepbrother's dog killed the mother and one of the babies when he ate through the chain link kennel, and then through the side of the barn. (I was not allowed to train this dog or work with him in any way, and though he was a dangerous animal and has killed cats, various small animals, is overly dog aggressive, and has bitten 3 family members, still lives...)

The raccoons were about 4-5 weeks old, they weren't itty bitty but they were helpless. Ah, and vicious, too! At least they were at first, I wore thick leather working gloves any time I handled them. Called the female Nook and the male Bull, once they could be handled esily without incident I took them to a wildlife sanctuary that kept them for educational purposes.

Sorry to get off topic It sounds like you are on the right track with Teagan.

thanks everyone, and robbin - for some reason i didn't see your post yesterday! but what you're describing w/levi sounds similar to teagan.

i ordered a bunch of stuff, including DD collars, new prongs, 2 leather traffic leashes (excited!), the 2-dog leash, and the pack structure DVD and the building drive and focus DVD (thought it might be a good tool for me to channel some of teagan's behaviours into an appropriate outlet) and some other stuff - tug toy. VISA is loving me right now!

but i will update on how things go once we get the DD collar, and also as i implement some of the other great ideas everyone posted. in the meantime, i'm probably going to continue using the martingale.

 Quote: Jennifer Marshal

One thing is definitely to be watching body language. Keep your eyes on her ears. You mention she is very alert and that her body language seems to be confrontational in how she presents herself to other dogs as dominant.

Work on Teagan with focusing on you during the walk, not on her surroundings. You as the alpha should be the only one displaying dominant body language.

sorry, just re-reading this (making sure i'm getting all the body language cues you guys mentioned) and i have a question.

i have been working on requiring teagan to do obed. at random times on the walk (generally just sit, as her down is still meh, and i ask her to heel anyways). i also do try to get her to focus on me as an exercise, we need improvement in that area....

anyways, this seems to be helping - it does break her concentration - and she has been improved when seeing other dogs, though i'm also being very careful to avoid close contact (we met another GSD when we were out yesterday - both of us moved off to avoid the other at the same time, it was kind of funny).

but - her basic body language - alert, forward, engaged (and i got from the posts, maybe i'm wrong, but also dominant) hasn't changed. is this just something that will change with time? i mentioned elsewhere i notice that people will cross the street or change direction/walk on the wrong side of the sidewalk so they go past luc (non-threatening language, in a coat, so 'cute') rather than teagan (ears forward, staring intently, body essentially directed at them). while she has very assertive body language, she's never been aggressive to a person (yes, she ran at the guy in the mask, but there was no barking/growling/lunging/snapping, so i don't really think of it as aggressive, though it did scare him off, so maybe i should) so i don't correct her body language - i'm not even sure how to when it's how she usually is.

will this change w/time and she'll display less dominant body language? i don't think she's fully accepted me as alpha at all times yet - we're getting better, but not there 100% yet. i'm just wondering as it seems to be her standard operating mode, rather than a behaviour that i can see her switch into and take her out of.

Jennifer -

Dominance is sort of hard wired into a dog. Confidence unfortunately is not, though some dogs are born with more courage and through possitive experiences gain confidence throughout life. At least that is how I've always thought of it, if I got my terminology wrong I beg for a correction lol.

Teagan sounds like most of the dogs I have ever had - dominant and confident. A dog that is dominant directs that dominance not only towards other dogs but towards people and pretty much any living it comes across.

Step in the handler/owner who's responsibility is to become the alpha over said dominant dog. Some dogs are harder than others and will not take to assertion of dominance as easily, and it can require work to gain the respect and status over your dog. Confident dogs wear this dominant attitude on the outside pretty much all the time. As seen by the humans as "posturing" or "strutting" etc, head held high, ears generally forward, almost always alert with tail up and an oft times amusing swagger.

Dominant/Confident dogs don't lose this without a lot of effort and it would not be beneficial to the dog most of the time as it would be a loss of confidence. It can be lessened where the dominant display of body language is a reaction rather than a constant, depending on the situation, but this requires the handler to be the absolute indisputed alpha.

OB, OB, OB! Always a great thing. Work on that down. Patience is good up to the point where it threatens to trounce your attempts at being head honcho.

You've only had Teagan a short time, so I would just say keep up the good work and continue to work OB. Really focus on that down. You may see her body language change as you are accepted as alpha. Once Teagan accepts you completely as the leader of your little dog pack, she should relax and allow you as the alpha to go into situations as the dominant one, but give it some time. Her confidence level may mean that she always gives off an air of "bring it on, I'm ready!!" and personally I like that in my dogs but I want PPDs, my poochies don't get the luxury of being pets. I'm mean, I make them work LOL

thanks jennifer! that all makes sense (i ended up discussing this in the thread where i actually had questions about encouraging her protectfulness), and i can see that she's not going to 'lose' her dominance, and i definitely don't want to take away her confidence....i think she accepts me a bit more as alpha every day (the obed. is helping a lot w/that, and we do groundwork, groundwork, groundwork), so i will have to watch how she changes, if she does. your description of confident dogs wearing the dominant attitude outside all the time sounds very familiar....