Just at the same time the dog is learning that Such means put nose down and look for food, does it really matter where that food is, or what kind of pattern it is in?
vanCamp, I have to agree with both Sch3FH2 and you. Pup only learning Such, what does it matter how track put down.

Pup did atrack in the barn this afternoon with one turn, didn't have any problems. She just followed the pieces of hotdog.

Sch3FH2 did advise me to make tidbits less visiable. I will do this when I get back home.

I&#039;m becoming a sponge, Just need you guys to squeeze out the knowledge you gave me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,

Crabtree,
Hey Lewis here on the tracking thing with the new pup good luck! I would keep up the short tracks to save time it might help too lay two tracks not to far apart that gives you a fresh one to start and by the time your finished the 2nd will be a little aged and a little more challenging for the pup.
As far a cutting corners the pup is picking up the cross wind from the foods scent. Like several people have mentioned utilize the winds current. I start tracking early in the morning with the fresh dew on the ground it gives you a better view of the track and for the pup building confidence in the pup as well as giving you a defenant track to follow no mistakes.
Corners on any new dog starting tracking I think is a no-no, only my opinion it will only confuse the pup and you don&#039;t want a dog that starts quartering alot and nervious and as you know corrections on the track might shut the pup down. I learned from an old timer in Germany to use surpintines slow long curves not short angles this teaches the pup to change directons without confusion and your still traveling basically in the same general direction. Also it teaches the dog to handle the wind changes no matter how slight. It worked GREAT <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I found out if you mix Kibble and Hotdogs or cheese cut in nickel size and let it sit to soften the dog will then not have to chew it makes the track steady without stopping to eat.
Just one more secret I also learned if the pup starts to pull real hard looking for the food or using air scent and not tracking the actual ground scent a blindfold can be used,I learned this from Helmut Reiser from his seminar while in Germany. I used it on my Giant Schnauzer in the 80&#039;s because she pulled so hard and fast. It made her keep her nose down and she slowed to a steady crawl. I did this for several weeks, when she tracked for her trials she scored in the high 90&#039;s most points where lost due to stupid handeler errors :rolleyes: Don&#039;t laugh guys! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
And just a word of wisdom from training 7 dogs for Schutzhund and SAR time and speed are not important! Being consistant and positive and most of all FUN! Keep it simple and remember a solid foundaton will give you a steady and confident dog! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I know it&#039;s time consuming and work may cause gaps in training, but keeping your training fun, and consecdent.
The basics straight legs short, then increase length and age(only if the pups confident first), Add the surpintines they really work then the 45 degree angles until you reach 90 degrees,(Key point to remember Know your track and your turns!)this is a must! Then change terrain off and on ie..dirt, grass, gravel. this proofs the dog for you.Remember the basics and if you need too go back to them if a problem starts use them.
Also this is only a suggestion, I have used this methoed I have woods all around I would lay short tracks from A to B, I would kick up the ground with the leaves and fresh scents it made it easier for the pups to determine the exact ground scent. Also you don&#039;t have to worry about alot of wind currents. This is a suggestion and opinion others may have differant ideas which might be better, USE WHAT IS PERTINANT TO YOU! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Remember there are no bad dogs only bad owners!
There is alot of information out there and alot of great people here on the board who can help you plus Ed&#039;s tapes are great to train and trouble shoot your pup!
Take your time and enjoy!

Be Safe!
Lewis/Argo and Riley

Originally posted by Lewis R. Fronk:
And just a word of wisdom from training 7 dogs for Schutzhund and SAR time and speed are not important! Being consistant and positive and most of all FUN! Keep it simple and remember a solid foundaton will give you a steady and confident dog! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I know it&#039;s time consuming and work may cause gaps in training, but keeping your training fun, and consecdent. No truer words have been spoken about tracking. This is something that keeps popping up in my TTD/SAR training, and if it weren&#039;t for more experienced folks reminding me of this basic fact, everything would have fallen apart long ago. The last thing I ever want to do is go BACK to basics. It always feels like I&#039;m not making any progress when I do that. But like it or not, whether you are tracking for sport or SAR, these words are true, and you cannot progress without revisiting the basics every now and then. So, take your time. There is no hurry. There is no point in skipping steps, because you will have to go back to them anyway. Any time you introduce a new element, you always go back to basics.

i usually start turns when the pup can go at least 100 paces, with at least 20 food free.
i also teach the pup from the very beginning that i am setting the pace.
my first tracking dog was allowed to get too fast, and she would blow through the turn and then get frantic trying to find the track. at that point when i tried to teach her to slow down, she just got upset. i have never let the pup learn he can go at his speed since then.
i agree with taking your time. the hardest part about tracking is it is very time consuming. and don&#039;t be afraid to back up a step or two.

also, as for the dog learning the "such" command, my dogs learn the flag in a couple of days, long before they learn the command. as my pup is approaching the flag--about 4 feet away--he is already starting to look for the scent.
i&#039;m not concerned with whether or not he knows the word..............

I have a 12 month old GSD who is going too fast on the track....he&#039;s very food motivated but he passes alot of food drops and just works the track....any ideas would be appreciated. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

People mistakenly think that its important that the dog get all the food laid down on the track - its not necessary. We are not teaching the dog to eat - we are teaching it to track. A dog can only track as fast as you walk. Speed is not a dog problem its a people problem.

Originally posted by Ed Frawley:
People mistakenly think that its important that the dog get all the food laid down on the track - its not necessary. We are not teaching the dog to eat - we are teaching it to track. A dog can only track as fast as you walk. Speed is not a dog problem its a people problem. This is a good point that Ed brings. I have a very good friend that I train with whenever I ca, and he mistakenly thought that the dog should eat every piece of hotdog on the track and the end result was that this dog was never able to pass his Sch3 tracking. If he never found food after the first 300 paces, he would loose it. This is a dog that got 96 and 99 in bitework twice, but never could get the pass in tracking.

When I&#039;m training a puppy in tracking I see my role as a facilitator rather than a trainer. Pups can track already; I&#039;m not really training it yet, I&#039;m letting it track. The only things I&#039;d emphasise at this stage are: some sort of marker at the start, food in every footstep, small steps, food of a colour to blend in with the environment so the pup doesn&#039;t look for it, curves instead of corners, a "jackpot" at the end of each track, keep it to 10 or 12 metres, and let it be fun. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lewis & everyone else, Thanks for the response. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> We will be working track in the morning. I&#039;ll let you guys know how we both do.
Thanks!!