Quote: Cameron Feathers

Even with the one or two steps that my dog took, I went back to leash work while in the construction area to desensitize her to the sudden noise in a controlled manner.

Yes, as Will also described.

And I think pretty much everyone advocated the use of a leash for now.

Jesse;
I also suggested in my origianl post to go back to the leash and start with basic training, exposing the dog to all kinds of distractions so that the dog will learn to deal with scary things on leash when you have the tools to help her deal with it.,
We are trying to help you, not be arguementative. By doing these suggestions, it will help your dog not be scared and help her not bolt and in the case that she does, she will have had tons of practice depending upon you being her leader and coming to you for guidance. Does this make sense?

Roni,
Just for general info. Hopefully I never have this kind of problem. But,
are you saying not to use the e-collar at all when the dog is in an avoidance mode?
I read some where around here you had a methodology for working a dog through avoidence with the e-collar. Is it a grounds up system or can it be implimented from the ending?
Does that make any sense? lol.

Ooh ooh, I know how to say it. Does one have to start at the beginning? Or can one skip chapters and still pass the test?

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

I’ll throw my two cents in here. From what I have read, and understood from the posts, is that this is a dog that DOES know what the command means, and has a great bond with the handler. It sounds like this is a freak, freak out where the reason is quite unclear as to why the dog reacted the way it did.

I was walking past a bar this afternoon, and a drunk guy literally fell out of the door (yelling and screaming while his buddies were laughing)two seconds after we walked by it (brushed Quinn's rear) . Quinn turned around to confront this, but I just kept walking away like it was no big deal and he got over it with out issue . The whole time my heart was racing. Had he fallen out two second earlier and onto me or my dog, any number of things could have happened. I'll let you who have a tough dog with domination issues and PPD/bite training imagine what yours would have done. It was a feak thing that I would never have imagined would happen. Had he been bit, would I be told that I should have traind him better or had him in a muzzle? Perhaps, and maybe I should have, but some times freak things happen. {soap-box} (Scared the bejesus out of me though.)

If this dog can go from a

 Quote:

dog-aggressive, fence-fighting, leash-pulling nightmare that she was when we adopted her

to walking nicely at heel past barking dogs while of leash and recalls very well off of chasing a cat, then it sounds like we are maybe not giving Jesse enough credit.

The descriptions to me is not a situation where Jesse can just go out and re-create the scenario to proof against it.

 Quote:

Since then, we’ve been back for off-leash walks in this field. We started by walking on-leash past the spot where I frightened her, and she’s clearly still anxious about it. But still, we had a good frolic after that, and I didn’t push my luck by exiting the field off-leash past the same “bad” spot. No hurry on that, I figure. I don’t want to induce a “test” of her inclination to bolt, so soon after the original event.

Sounds like everything is being done correctly… Only thing I would add here would be to really make that spot a very exciting, happy place to be. Lots of love, treats and fun games. Be extra diligent to your dogs reactions and demeanor. Practice the re-call in some fairly high (maybe one or two steps down from where you have been working) distractions for a while, on lead, to reinforce the command.

As to the corrections while in avoidance, all I will say is that in that situation I would do what I have to to keep my dog or anyone else from danger and then berate myself later for allowing it to have happened. I'll leave the technique to the pros.

Crawling back into my hole…

 Quote:

are you saying not to use the e-collar at all when the dog is in an avoidance mode?

I for one would be very interested to hear about that. As I see it, correcting for an avoidance behavior, like panic or fear, would seem counterproductive, adding additional stress to an already panicking dog.

If there is an e-collar technique that wouldn't add to the dogs mental chaos then please do share

OK, folks, this is my frustration on "talking" on the internet.........Jesse.....the words are getting in your way.............lets slow down for just a minute..........First of all, you have a wonderful, soft dog, sensitive to you and the environment,......You have done amazing work with her to teach her all these things. MOST OF ALL YOU have taught her that you
are her source of safety, IN MOST INSTANCES...........BUT...sometimes scary things happen to her and she thinks.......EXIT STAGE LEFT.......SO THE BEST WAY!!!!!!!
To continue and make forward progress: Comfort and leadership is taught and felt by the dog by TEATHERING the dog to you. The leash is used here for the emotional growth of the dog. Most people I know only use the leash as a means to control the dog...........it can be so much more and that is what is needed by your dog. The reason that I recommended you "going back to the basics is that when you practice something the dog already knows it creates confidence in the dog, especially if you do it in the vacinity of where the "scary" thing happened. But a word of caution here, IF you are the type of trainer that used corrections, (a pop on the leash)DON"T. THAT type of training, crushes dogs emotionally and closes windows and doors in a dogs mind.
IF, you trained with me....or if you had attended one of my seminars I would consel you on how an e collar can build confidence in this situation. I do this with dogs of all different tempermanents, and it works, but I take your dog's
life way to seriously to try and explain it via the internet.
So the safest way for me to help you, is to ask you to put the leash back on the dog and build confidence in that way and desensitize you dog ot lots of different stimuli on a graduating scale to help her generalize more, and that when someday she does
come across something scary she goes to YOU her LEADER for comfort and safety.

 Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood

A leash is always a good tool. Keeps the dog from running away A dog that isn't reliable should be on lead and unable to get themselves into the situation that requires the high-stim.

ABSOLUTELY.

I think the root of this problem is that when the dog is confident and not stressed she's obedient, but she has a nerve issue that takes over when something she's not comfortable with surfaces.

I think keeping this dog on a long line and backing up your training to set you and Lily up for success is your best and kindest option.

She needs confidence building NOT different methods of correction. By giving her increasing correction level with the collar you are correcting her for being afraid and that creates a vicious cycle of more fear, more correction, etc.....

Keep this dog on a long line, and work through markers on things you know make her fearful. (this is outlined in the Pack Structure dvd with Dante and the ear and foot touching) You can do this technique with anything that makes your dog unconfident.

She may need corrections for disobeying a command she understands and chooses to ignore, but to correct her for running away when she's in flight mode is only going to make this issue worse.

You've gotten really good advice on this thread from Roni, Mike, Will, Connie and many others.