To me, this article makes sense only in the light of scientific study of nature/evolution; out in the true wilderness, where man has not polluted the dynamics of wolf group behavior. I don't know if Mr. Mech was knocking Cesar, or he was just being "technical". Even though, it still strikes a nerve with me.

I am relatively new to this, but I have followed Cesar though and have used many of his methods with great success. I respect what Cesar has done to link humans with their dogs. He has saved many dogs by challenging the way people think. Even if it does not reflect wolf pack behavior 100%, he has sent a ripple through the world that encourages responsibility and posibility, even with the most troubled of dogs. It is an idea that works with getting through to people, so they can have a chance to help their dogs.

I am a Biology major and I know for a fact that Science and research has it's place; in the laboratory or field. In the real world there is no perfect equation that equals "x" all the time. Mr. Mech's study of true wolf packs is like studying a force in space where there is no friction. There are so many other factors in the real world and the environment that we humans provide for our dogs, that science cannot quantify or encompass in it's study. It may be more complicated than the genetic code.

I would have to do some research on mr. Mech before I judge him any more, but get it straight, Cesar basically does whatever he can to momentarily hit the reset button on dogs, and does very well getting through to a diverse background of irresponsible/soft/naive/etc dog owners, that would otherwise give up on their dog. He educates them and sets them up with possibility to develop a new relationship. Yes, many times it stifles/takes the drive (he likes to say years of built up tension) out of the dog, but that allows the building to resume, in a different direction.
QUOTE:
"The more intelligent and effective option is to give the dog a positive outlet for his energy and emotions. That’s kind of what the long walks do, except that while long walks may wear a dog out, they don’t really satisfy his true energy needs. That comes through playing games that stimulate and satisfy his hunting instincts." (Dr. Mech)

Also, Cesar always recommends if possible to work towards finding what the dog was built to do, and give him a job. Herding, Agility, carrying a pack, etc. Until Mr. Mech has gotten through to the average dogowner, his "technicalities" are not helping to promote the idea of balance.

I speak on behalf of the general public and not from a professional trainer standpoint. I am very sorry if this is layman talk for all of you, I am three days old to this site. I know you likely wanted feedback on how it impacts working dog training. I just get a little heated with all the Cesar negativity. When I needed help and guidance with Keekae, my puppy mill mom rescue, Mr. Mech's tips and guidance was nowhere to be found.

Thanks for listening
Kevin

Mr. Peabody!!!!!!! Help!!!!!!!!!
I'm still stuck in the wayback thread.

How did Cesar Milan and Dr. Mech get tied up together in the same thread?

The article is called "Cesar Millan: Pack Leader or Predator?" and it references some of what Mech perceives as CM's methods.

Just to let you know I asked Ed Frawley to post a thread about alpha roll on the same like you just posted. I asked Ed about a few weeks ago. Well, Ed told me that he does not want anything like that to be post in here. You might want to ask Ed first for a permission. I wouldn't be surprised if he is going to lock the thread.

 Quote: Lindsay Janes

Just to let you know I asked Ed Frawley to post a thread about alpha roll on the same like you just posted. I asked Ed about a few weeks ago. Well, Ed told me that he does not want anything like that to be post in here. You might want to ask Ed first for a permission. I wouldn't be surprised if he is going to lock the thread.

Lindsay, that was an admonition about recommending the practice. No one in this thread is recommending it.

What article is that Mr. Peabody?

Or have I wandered into the Fractured Fairy Tales?
Randy

Who let you back into the wine cellar?

Go to page one of this thread.

Read the first line in the first post.




And give me the keys to the Wayback Machine. You should not be driving.

 Quote: randy allen

What article is that Mr. Peabody?

Or have I wandered into the Fractured Fairy Tales?
Randy

great, now I'm going to spend the rest of the night watching Bullwinkle on youtube until I get it all out of my system

Jeeez, the first line. (Head slap)
Okay I'm going the grab that article and go back into the wine cellar. And I'm not coming out until either the wine is gone or the article starts making some sense to me.
Which ever one comes first.

Give someone else the Wayback keys first.