That's what I was thinking...although it takes a bit more effort to mesh a dog like that into the home if it has not been kept that way than it does a younger dog. It's totally doable, but Vanessa might be disappointed if she thinks she's going to skip all this stuff b/c she's not getting a pup.

Lord knows, Capri needs some work on her general house manners (she's never been in one) when I get the time.

Maybe a young adult being sold for some reason other than temp. might work? Maybe the dog won't score high enough in a trial or maybe it has some problem and can't be bred and was bought to breed. Lots of situations leave good dogs homeless. There are plenty out there, but I'm not sure they are always going to be easy to find, due to the fact that people LIE. You really have to know who you are buying a dog from and the dog's history if starting w/an adult.

Hey, Vanessa, I have a dog I was going to sell for $1500 to a cop...but if you want to give me $15,000, I'll sell him as an Official Personal Protection Dog and even bring him to ya. Heck, I'll even brush up on a few of his skills for you. Oh, fine. I'll do it for $10,000.

Alyssa,

Thanks for the response. I do very much want a companion for all of us, especially my kids. The idea of a dog that is trained to protect and will also fit the above would be ideal. Point taken with your response about a puppy bonding with my kids/family.

Thanks.

Were I in your situation, I would get a pup out of proven working lines.

I would raise the pup, and at a minimum, do some sort of sports work (Ring or Schutzhund) to build the dog's confidence, get the dog well trained, etc.

While a Schutzhund dog isn't automatically a protection dog, most Schutzhund dogs have had their confidence built enough that they will bark convincingly at an intruder.

Doing the sport work will also let you know what your dog is. You will get a true feel of it's strengths and weaknesses, and learn how much he/she is really capable of.

Perhaps some thought should be given to a well balanced dog who simply has a great "bark and hold" trained for deterrent purposes. Any dog can be trained to bark on command, and if more force is needed, chances are that a well balanced pet would respond accordingly anyway. A dog on the level of training that a PPD dog has requires a lot of work, and experience to maintain, not to mention to keep your kids safe from the DOG who has not really bonded with your family yet, or is being sold because it doesn't have the nerves to make it in the ring (which happens, unfortunately)
Don't get too discouraged, you will find something that will work for you, and you are getting some great advice here on this site as well.
If you haven't already, talk to Will. He has a ton of personal experience in this particular area, and he will be able to point you in a good direction for finding a dog that will suit what you need as well.

Vanessa, do you have cats? If not, I know of a possibility for you. PM me. If you don't know how, just click on my name and the option will pop up to send a private message. Then, click on the flashing envelope near "my stuff" at the top when you log in next.

No matter what age dog you get even one that has alot of training on it will still need a good deal of 'work' to maintain. You don't just purchase a trained dog & that's it. A dog needs constant training. With a pup you can mold the behaviors that you want. More work, but this can often give the bond that is not as easy to form with an older dog. Just some thoughts.

This is going to be a multi-part reply for Vanessa to ponder:

Personal Protection Dog Selection
Personal Protection Dog Kennel and Trainer Selection
• What titles do the trainers hold?
There are a few untitled trainers that do a good job, but these are *rare*. For trainers to be doing something as serious as training personal protection dogs and to not to have a lot of titles in different venues ( titles just in *one* venue is a warning sign ) is a big warning sign.
• Do they have a ready made list ( and please, take the time to call former clients) of people that have gotten dogs from them. Evaluate closely those dogs - are they still functioning as PPD’s, or did they end up pets because the clients weren’t serious and no longer trained them ?
And along those lines, what does the PPD train offer for follow up sessions ( hint: free life-time follow should be the norm ), or if the client lives too far to come for follow up, does the trainer help arrange contact between the client and say, their local Schutzhund club?
• Does the trainer proudly point to some “Master Trainer” certificate hanging on their wall? ( Valuable hint here ) - if the certificate is from anywhere else but The Tom Rose School For Dogs or Triple Crown Academy…………walk away, they’re bogus.
• Does the PPD trainer have pictures of all the celebrities that they’ve sold dogs to plastered all over their office wall or website? Hint - Celebrities are usually the worse PPD clients, their staff ends up taking care of the dog and it’s a total waste of a good dog. So Celebrity endorsements are a strong sign of a bogus set-up and a reason to shop elsewhere.
• Now to more important matters - does the PPD trainer actually know what happens during a criminal attack? This should elementary, but most PPD trainers have never actually been a crime victim and/or even more rarely, have ever deployed a dog to deter an attack.
And if you’ve never done something in real life, you’re working on assumptions that you’ve learned from others, no matter how hard you train.
This gives trainers that were K9 officers a real advantage in the PPD world, even though the deployment of a canine by an LEO has a very different rule set then what a civilian using his PPD will encounter.
I also give a nod to ex-Military folks that have seen actual combat, it gives them a mind set that is valuable in the training of PPD’s ( and not just Military dog handlers, the basic combat grunt has gained the lessons of staying alive against hostile forces to a degree that civilians can never obtain ).

Part II

Selecting the Right Personal Protection Dog
Ok, you’ve followed the advice from the thread “Selecting a Trainer/Vendor” and after doing your extensive homework, you’ve gotten in contact with a good vendor. You have been in close communication with this vendor via e-mail and phone and he thinks that he’s got a dog that you can work with.
What now?
There are a few steps that I suggest you take to make the most out of your visit to see the dog.
• Come a little bit early to the site and ask to be shown around *before* you see the dog. Look at the kennel set up - it everything clean, is it a place that you’d be fine with boarding a dog at?
Take a look at the training equipment, is it well cared for and organized?
Look at the training site, do they have mock ups of building/windows, cars,etc. where they can train realistic protection scenarios? Is the area fenced for safety?
• Take the time to look at the dog’s paperwork. Check it’s registration ( if any, there are plenty of excellent un-papered dogs ) and look closely through it’s health records. Take a look at it’s hip x-ray rating. If the dog was owned by someone else previously, find out *why* the dog was sold, and be demanding in a clear answer for this ( these are all points that should have been discussed over the phone before you made your trip there, by the way - you’re reviewing the paperwork to double-check and verify facts now ).
• Let the trainer introduce the dog to you. Observe the dog, is it confident and sure in it’s surrounding? Does it look you over but also look to the handler to see if they accept your presence? Is the dog the correct weight, is it’s coat in good shape? Does the dog look well-exercised and not like it’s been in a crate for 23 hours a day?
• Once the dog has become familiar with you, it’s time for your decoy to do their job.
Yes…..*your* decoy - to do this the right way, you’ll need to bring an experienced decoy that you can trust and that the dog has never seen.
Now look, this dog probably has received some meaningful training, but the odds are that it’s been all on a single decoy ( not many vendors have multiple skilled decoys on their payroll, a good decoy is hard to come by ). What we want to see is how the dog reacts from a threat by a decoy that it doesn’t know.
So you’ll stay far out of the way and the handler will have the dog on a strong leash. You call your decoy via cell-phone to come in and the decoy will start to to loudly knock on the door to the office - watch the dog, he’d better bark here. The decoy escalates the door pounding and the prospective PPD had better be letting your decoy know to go elsewhere.
Finally the decoy forcefully swings the door open and talks in a loud and threatening manner - prospective PPD should be displaying outright aggression and dragging the handler towards the decoy ( all of these reactions by the dog are without commands ) who then leaves.
The handler now calms the dog to the point where you can pet it, etc. The decoy has changed into his bite suit out of sight and is now outside around the corner of the building or behind a van ( whatever you and the decoy and the vendor have decided on previously ). You and the handler and the dog walk outside and stroll calmly to the spot where the decoy is hiding - the decoy jumps out and attacks the handler and you watch for the reaction of the dog ( a slight startle is ok, but the dog has to recover immediately and bite the decoy. Ideally this happens so fast that the dog doesn’t even zero in on the fact that there’s a bite suit present, so speed is of the essence here ).
I highly suggest that you, the handler/vendor and the decoy walk through the exact steps of the scenario at least twice so everyone knows their part.
A dog that passes this test is the dog that you write the big check for.

Part III

I am often asked this question:
"ok so are you saying that if someone were to come into my house that a sport trained dog might not get the job done?"


The answer to that is - it depends.

Most criminals are looking for victims, not sparring partners, and the threat of a dog barking ( or a firearm ) will almost always make them seek easier prey.
So just a dog barking is a deterrent, and even a pet can fulfill this need ( a good sport dog may indeed bite an intruder, but you'll never be sure, and if you need a set level of security you are going to have to train that dog further, or get a different dog.

The real question arises when you are dealing with a determined attacker - then all bets are off. Most dogs can be driven off by a determined attacker and in that case you need one of the rare dogs with the willingness to engage and fight - and this will give you enough time to escape, call for help, or get to your firearms and deal with the problem in a more serious manner.

Most of the so called "ppds" sold by so many of these amateur trainers would not do their job in a real fight, but they can bark at an intruder.....the only downside here is...why pay 10k for a dog that won't do the work?
If clients would only test these so called "ppds" correctly, these bogus kennels and trainers would dry up and stop scamming folks.

Vanessa,
here's how it usually goes - if you are in *real* danger and are looking for a PPD, you want a dog that first and foremost will *stop* the bad guy, and everything else is a secondary consideration.
I usually only see this type of urgency with "overseas" sales, i.e., the dogs are going to a 2nd or even 3rd world location where they have a serious job to do. I have sold a few of these type dogs in the U.S. ( and own one myself ) but they usually go to the un-named Government agencies.

Most Americans do not want ( nor are they willing to modify their life style to own ) a real PPD. They want a dog that will alarm bark and possibly ( but no real guarantee ) bite the bad guy, but when you get right down to it, they will trade livability for protection - I see it all the time.

A common thing that a vendor sees is a woman that is being stalked and is in a panic and makes a bad decision to buy a PPD - they end up with too much dog and when the situation calms down they want to get rid of the dog, ASAP.

I actually had a potential client ( back when I was a vendor ) that was considering a dog from me, but they ended up buying a dog from someone that I had previously had a good opinion of. Well, naturally the woman changed her mind and wanted to give the dog back to the trainer that she had bought it from - who now would not even return the woman's phone calls ( he's off my list of recommended vendors, needless to say ).
For some reason the woman called me then for advice ( and I wondered to myself..."why call me? You didn't even buy *my* dog!" ) and the only thing I could tell her was to try and sell the dog. I never did end up hearing what happened in the end, but I'm sure it wasn't pretty.
Sadly, that's a far more common occurrence that you'd think.

So I would tell anybody that was thinking of getting a PPD to stop and think *hard* about what adding a defensive dog will do to your lifestyle, and to make damn sure that you are willing to make the life style accommodations to suit getting a PPD.
Or be happy with the decision to get a lesser dog and feel good about it - even a bark alert increases your personal security, just don't play that common game of fooling yourself that the dog will stop the bad guy at the dog - it most likely wont.

Here's a question that I always asked my clients that were looking for a PPD - do you own a gun? If they said no, they didn't need a dog from me and that ended the potential sale. It's all about life style changes and the willingness to make them.
( and Vanessa already owns a firearm...big points with me! )

Part IV

What a PPD should cost you....
________________________________________
I've said this before on different forums - the Personal Protection Dog world has what I consider to be the higher percentage of crooks and con men in the world of dogs today.

If buyers were educated and informed about what to look for and how to properly test a PPD, 80% of the PPD's for sale would fail a real selection test.
If prospective buyer's would look a bit more closely at many of the trainers that claim to be able to train a PPD, they would see that the trainers lack any meaningful experience that would qualify them to be training a dog that may be required to protect a person.

Ok, now that I've got that out of my system, what should a good PPD cost.

The initial cost is the dog, and ideally we are speaking of an 18 to 24 month old "green dog". The dog has had some training but is untitled.
Cost - $4,000 to $6,000 at the high end. And buying a dog that was bred in the U.S. and received it's core training here usually works out just fine.

Next, the cost of training - the more you want, the more that the dog costs. Also, if you are requesting an "odd" temperament ( people *always say "ok, I need a real man-killer, but it has to be good with my kids, family, friends, etc., etc., etc...... ) you're going to pay *a lot* more.

Let's be real here - the traits that make a dog a good PPD usually are not those that make it a fine family pet. A PPD is suspicious of strangers at least to a degree and reactive to it's environment ( folks, real PPD's are *not* placid, sorry to say ). This is part of a frequent scam, which is usually assisted by the buyer ( this always mystifies me ) A buyer may talk up how tough a dog they want, but if showed a weak dog that gets along with the family ( and would break and run away when needed ) they'll chose the weak dog every time. Now they can't face that they have a crap dog, so they build it up in their mind to be some type of Godzilla, and you know....they most likely will never need that dog to defend them, so it works out ok.....except that they paid three times what the shitter was actually worth and the scamming PPD trainer wannabe thinks that they can con everyone.
Sadly, they're often correct.

Back to training costs, a good training team should be able to produce a well trained PPD that is comfortable is most protection scenarios in two to four months of steady training. Considering that it takes a team to do this work, an addition of six to ten thousand dollars is a fair price.

So, there you have it - low end 10k to high end 16k. *That* is what a well trained PPD should cost.



So why may you ask, are people charging 35K for a PPD?
Because they're crooks.
And because there are stupid, stupid people that will waste money and not be smart enough to do their homework before hand.
( Wanna have some fun? Tell the suckers that their dog *isn't* worth 35K and watch the excuses flow - it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad. )