I am using the prong collar, and it came off my dog last night. I am a bit confused as to how it works. Also, do I use the collar and correct him when I tell him to sit and he doesnt?

Hello Everyone:

Amy, you probably had the collar on incorrectly or it was to loose (to many links). The collar should fit snuggly and the "O/D" rings should be on the right side of the dogs neck, the collar should sit high up on the neck behind the ears.

You also asked if you should correct him if you told him to sit and he doesn't sit? Does your dog know how to sit, Is he done with the learning phase?

It sounds like you don't know how and when to give a proper correction, and trying to get "specific" instruction via the internet on how to correct or train a dog isn't the best idea. So it's safe to say that you are probably in over your head with this dog.

I would look up resources in your area and try and get a trainer to help you with your dog ASAP. This should be a person who has had some experience with dominate dogs, you have to check because some places won't work with dogs of this type.

If you are feeling apprehensive, your dog will pick up on this as well. You might want to look at this site and also get a muzzle if you feel that you might need one, just in case. Proper corrects are tough on a dog and people w/o much experience will think that its cruel, but a properly administered correction will definitely get a yelp or two out of the dog.

I'm not trying to get down on you, I think its great to try and get info, but don't waste time and put off tomorrow what you can do today, get some help asap.

Hope this helps,
Brandon

Thanks Brandon, I agree with a lot that you said. As far as the collar goes, there is an "extra" chain part that is part of the live ring, and I am just confused. I will have to take him somewhere with it on to have them show me how to correctly fit it. The collar fits and is snug high on his neck, but the way it works doesnt seem right. And Joe knows ALL the commands. He will do them all for a treat, but if you dont have a treat to give him, he doesnt always do it. So, he does know. I used the collar last night while working with him (sit, stay, down) and it seemed to work. I treated him after he did those commands. But without treats, he decides not to do them. Its very frustrating. I suppose I will have to get together with a pro on this, as he is dominant. We dont let him sleep on the bed anymore and last night he stood on the floor and let out a little growl. he finally laid down, but that proved it to me that he is upset that he is not getting his way.

Amy:

You try connecting the live ring with the dead ring (both rings to the leash). If you dog is sitting on your left side, the space where the rings are will be facing the right side of the dogs neck.

Next, when the dog pulls, the collar constricts slighly and the dogs get an even pressure around his neck, but it doesn't damage his vocal cords or anything like that.

When you give a correction, don't pull on the collar, give short snaps on the collar. Before trying it on your dog, put the collar on your leg or thigh and give yourself a "pop" or two just so you get the feel.

What was your dog doing in your bedroom last night? He should of been in the garage or basement sleeping in a vari-kennel. If he growled at you, you need to correct the "shiznit" out of him right there and then, he is telling you to "F-OFF" by doing that.

You aren't training him, he already has you trained, while it is good for him to get treats, you should vary the reward, treats, verbal praise, physical praise, his favorite toy that he only gets to play with during training sessions. Also remember not to leave that toy out, they are your toys, you tell him when he can and can't play with them.

Remember you start today off like its day one with a new dog and doggy boot camp, be firm but fair and get that vari kennel today and line up a few trainers to go and see 1st thing tomorrow.

Train Smart,
Brandon

Amy, I have a slightly different take on this. I want to go back to the original situation. There are two possible scenarios here.
In scenario A, he is comfortably ensconced on the couch, and you try to lure him off with a treat. The lure is less appealing to him than staying comfy on the couch, so he doesn't take the bait. He does not understand that you want him to get off the couch and go in his cage. You reach toward his collar, and since he has been abused (for the sake of argument, since it is something you suspect), he is naturally hand shy and feels threatened by this gesture. You continue to tug at his collar, escalating your behavior (he still has no idea what you want him to do), to the point where he feels so threatened that he must defend himself.
In scenario B, he is comfortably ensconced on the couch, you try to lure him off with a treat. He has no idea what you want from him, but he does not want your treat. You reach for his collar, and since he is dominant, he corrects you for your inappropriate behavior toward His Highness. You escalate your challenge to his supremacy, so he, instead of backing down, escalates his response.

In either scenario, Joe did not understand what you wanted. In either scenario, your escalation of your behavior elicited his response. In either scenario, physical force and "because I said so" do not apply. When you lost control of yourself, you lost control of the situation. No matter which scenario it is, I would give the same advice. I agree that you should keep him leashed at all times that he is supervised. However, I do not care if it is attached to a prong, his buckle collar, or a head collar. The point is that with the leash, you have control without having to touch him or even reach toward him. I agree with firm obedience, and I don't care if you use treats to REWARD him. But the bribing must stop. The difference between a bribe and a reward is that with a bribe, the dog sees the treat and knows that you will give it to him if he complies. With a reward, the dog does not know if you have any treats or not, and does not know if he will get one if he complies. Sometimes he gets one, and sometimes he doesn't. When learning a behavior, he gets one every time. Once the behavior is learned, he is rewarded randomly.

One thing to keep in mind is that with an adult dog that you have rescued, "because I said so" doesn't always cut it. Especially if this dog has indeed been abused. Once you have built a bond with him and earned his respect and trust (never EVER make him feel cornered again!!!!), then "I said so" becomes reason enough to do whatever you ask. But it takes time to get there with a second hand dog. I usually recommend to people that rescue an adult dog that they start from square one, as if this dog were a puppy, learning everything for the first time.

Another thing that I would like to point out is that dogs don't always get on the couch or bed because they are dominant. Often, it is for the simple reason that the couch is COMFORTABLE!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Would you rather sleep in your nice soft bed, or on the cold hard floor? Dogs feel the same way. Make sure that you provide Joe with an alternative. Have a dog bed in your room for him to sleep on. Direct him there to sleep when you go to bed at night. He will eventually learn that where he is supposed to sleep. One idea, I think I might have read here, is to get a crib mattress and cover it with a fitted crib sheet. Apparently these are pretty comfy, and since they are covered with plastic, they do not absorb doggy odor, and you can just wash the sheet when it gets dirty.

I also agree that you need help from a trainer. This is probably all so overwhelming and potentially confusing, that having some in person help can be invaluable. Again, good luck with Joe.

Amy:

Almost forgot, make sure you always have a leash on him in the house, so you can correct him quickly. Or you can get those little clips that will clip the leash to your belt as you are in the house. Also, each time you call him to you or anything, I would concentrate on placing him in a down rather than a sit. The down is more of a submissive posture than the sit. Get the tape that Ed has with Tom Rose teaching OB, it's a good tape and talks about how to fit the collar properly, and shows some pretty nifty ways to get a dog to do OB. Also get the one about basic OB for starters and read the Q&A's again.

FYI,
Brandon

FYI,
Brandon

I will have to check out the collar when I get home, I think I know what your talking about though. And I will test it on myself. He got off it last night somehow and ran to a lady with her dog. Funny though, he got there and this dog was HUGE, so he cowered.

He sleeps on our floor now, which I dont see being problem. he is below us. He was on the bed before the incident happened, and it was obvious that he wasnt happy about it last night, so I think we are making our point. And I did contact our instructor who runs a Boxer rescue and is a dog trainer for advice, so hopefully she will be able to help us. We only want whats best for us and Joe, and we now realize that what we were doing out of love was all wrong. He needs order, and we lost site of that. We thought he would be happy with all his priviledges, and he was, but now we are unhappy, and that doesnt make for a good household.

I agree with todd, you need to show him you are the boss, no food,treats, and toys for free, no bedroom at all, no couchs, you go throw doors first. you eat first. always walk and talk confidantly in his presence. o.b. is needing to be practiced everyday too. make him sit for his meals too. and yes it needs to be everyday starting today, cause i am sure he is a good dog, but he is a bad boss is all.

Amy wrote
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And Joe knows ALL the commands. He will do them all for a treat, but if you dont have a treat to give him, he doesnt always do it. So, he does know. I used the collar last night while working with him (sit, stay, down) and it seemed to work. I treated him after he did those commands. But without treats, he decides not to do them.
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My comment

If this is true then he needs to be winged off the treat to you just praising him. This is done by slowly take the treat out of the OB training and replacing it with praise. So you really have to make a big deal out him sitting or command. Use a high picth voice and really rub him up, I'd use two good praising and the a treat, 2 out 3 would be praising. Until he will do three good commands without a treat. Then treat whenever he really does something good or new.

Your dog is in the transition/proofing stage, he really does not have the commands down yet. He understands what you want but will only do it to get what he wants. You need to change it so he wants to do it for you, when you want him to.

Stop letting him train you. If he has to be in your bedroom make him stay in a certain spot, get him one of those big doggy pillows, throw it in the corner and make him stay there. Don't let him run the bedroom, this could lead to another problem. Showing a person how to lovea dog, is hard. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Ok, lets see here...

First L Swanston...how did the dog "know" the couch was more comfortable then the floor? It had to have enough dominance in him to smell the humans scent on it and jump on it anyway.

This may come as a shock to those of you who know me...however, why are we already at the prong collar? Did the dog "know" who the boss was? Sounds like it to me. The dog knew exaclty who the boss was, him. To correct him with a prong at that time can create more problems then it would fix. If the thinks he is the pack leader and you correct him, he looks at you with a sense of unsureness. How dare you correct me you know I am the boss. Something must be wrong with you, I am outta here. Or the second case: You know I am the boss. Apparently you forgot. Let me remind you! you get a fight on your hands. Sounds familiar.

Have the leash on the dog, simply drag him off. Or better yet, don't let him up there in the first place.(leash) You have to start creating doubt in the dogs mind as to who the boss actually is.(Now this is for a pet owner, this is not for experienced working dog handlers who all have egos and say they prong the s*it out of the dog). Sit for food. Sit for petting. Down by standing on the leash. So forth. Crate time. Once there is doubt as to the leadership you can correct.

As far as, doing everything when there is a treat. This means nothing to me. Try having a treat in your hand and have a friend set a rabbit loose. Where do you think your dog is going. He has learned he will listen as long as nothing else is more interesting. Again a question of leadership. If you are the boss and run the same scenario I just described the dog will stay with you.