I'm going to step in it here & point out that dogs used for research purposes must have at least 24 sq. ft. of floor space if they are over 66 pounds...

http://www.ahc.umn.edu/rar/cagespace.html

A laboratory that housed a large dog in a crate most of the day would be sited for cruelty. Whereas I do believe crate training has its uses, keeping an active, energetic dog in the usual sized crate for much of the day, day after day, could well be part of the cause of the OCD/neurotic behavior.

Also, I wonder if the aggression corresponds to the move? Subsequent restriction of movement that previously discharged some of the nervous energy?

JMO

 Quote: Jane Jasper

I'm going to step in it here & point out that dogs used for research purposes must have at least 24 sq. ft. of floor space if they are over 66 pounds...

http://www.ahc.umn.edu/rar/cagespace.html

A laboratory that housed a large dog in a crate most of the day would be sited for cruelty. Whereas I do believe crate training has its uses, keeping an active, energetic dog in the usual sized crate for much of the day, day after day, could well be part of the cause of the OCD/neurotic behavior.

Also, I wonder if the aggression corresponds to the move? Subsequent restriction of movement that previously discharged some of the nervous energy?

JMO

" Whereas I do believe crate training has its uses, keeping an active, energetic dog in the usual sized crate for much of the day, day after day, could well be part of the cause of the OCD/neurotic behavior."

I know I just skimmed after I read this, but I am seeing strong urgent recommendations for a TON of exercise and frequent training sessions .... the opposite of crating for "much of the day, day after day."

Immediately after the first crate mention is:

" Dog is to be tethered to you all the time when out in the house. You have to go to do laundry dog goes with you. You have to gt to the bathroom, dog goes with you. Doesn't matter if dog is sleeping on the floor next to you...she goes with you if you have to more.

Dog will need to be corrected immediately when it starts & then redirected to a toy & and an activity.

Tail chasing & spinning is usually started by dogs that are bored & underexercised

This dog needs tons more exercise then it is getting. A really tired dog is less enthusiatic about tail chasing. You are not even touching the tip of the iceberg in terms of the amount that she is getting to date if what you stated is a normal day. Tongue dragging would be my discription,as Connie stated, numerous times a day. "

In no way am I reading to crate "much of the day, day after day." If this is what's coming across, I want to correct that mistake now. I know that Anne was saying "more exercise, much more exercise, tether the dog to you, more training sessions," etc.

She can speak for herself, of course, but she's not online at the moment and I don't want to leave the impression that any of the experienced people here are recommending to crate this dog "much of the day, day after day."

Just for clarification!

Thanks Connie...exactly what I meant to get across.

Dog goes in crate after exercise if you cannot watch it or have it with you. If you are available (in the house) dog is teathered to you & follows you around the house doing chores etc. It is not a time to start giving tons of affection or play..it is a means of conveying to the dog that you are in charge. Not only does this keep the dog active & add to the exercise level, it teaches it pack structure & that you control everything in it's life. You make the decision when she gets to lay down, sit etc. If he is sleeping when you get upto go to fix a cup of coffee she has to get up & go with you. Doesn't matter if he is sleeping or not. Up the dog gets & comes with you. Dog can go out in the yard to do yard work also. Dog goes out to do potty on a long line & in the yard for play dragging a long line.Dog needs to know that you can control her at all times no matter where she is for pack structur purposes..but this will also allow you to stop any tail chasing if it should begin.

Some dogs will do tail chasing in or out of a crate. Some dogs will not do it in their crate, only out of it. Some may just spin in their crate. Each case if different. Remember that this has been allowed to become very ingrained in this dog now at a year old it will not be easy to stop. In order to have any chance at stopping this you need to be right there next to the dog to do so.

Also if the dog is targeting a certain spot on the tail you might try some bitter apple or tobasco on the hair around the spot to help discourage grabbing it. Not directly on the spot as it will burn.

I'd use a crate in the car to not allow the dog the opportunity to snap at you.

Extended crate time for a dog with tail chasing (unless it doesn't do it in the crate & if so doesn't replace it with some other OCD behavior) is the kiss of death.

Dog needs to be out & moving as much as possible as a means of mental & physical exercise in addition to outside tongue dragging exercise.

If he is moving he can't be tail chasing & if he tries it you are right there to correct & redirect to some OB or toy.

I would not get into the habit of always redirecting to a toy or you will be causing the dog to do the tail chasing as a means of enlisiting playtime. That is not the goal here.

I realize that y'all strongly rec'd exercise first & foremost. My concern is that the crate becomes the default when life gets hectic, what w/jobs, holidays, & other responsibilities. It becomes a time factor for people w/busy lives. And tho' tethering the dog to you is preferable to crating, it's not an energy burner in the same way digging up the yard is (as much as we don't like it, it allows the dog to discharge a LOT of rather manic energy).

I think inexperienced or overbooked people tend to put the dog in the crate whenever it starts to get on their nerves a bit, or they have to focus on another task (like taking care of a baby). That's when a useful training tool begins to become a problem. An X-pen has more pacing room... not that pacing is wonderful, but it's movement that a crate doesn't allow, unless you've supersized the crate (I have a great dane sized one from when my dog was confined for 2 months post TPLO surgery; took up the whole living room).

Now, the OP has accepted that he needs to step up on the obedience aspect, but I want to hear how much more exercise he can realistically, day-after-day, every day, give this dog... what are his solutions to that deficiency? Because otherwise, as we all know, he's liable to come down heavy on a dog that's going stir crazy.

And I'd like to know how much this dog gets yelled at.

Here's a question... it occurs to me that the woman may not be too wild about tethering a dog to her that has bitten her hard enough to draw blood. It sounds like she's the one who's home during the day, it sounds like she's several months pregnant and she'd be the one the dog would be tethered to the most. Would a basket muzzle be appropriate?

And remember in our suggestions, there is no yard to exercise in. They now live in an apartment.

 Quote: Jane Jasper

I realize that y'all strongly rec'd exercise first & foremost. My concern is that the crate becomes the default when life gets hectic

It's a good choice when things get hectic and especially when taking care of a new baby. Jane, I think you're missing the point that if the dog's needs are met relaxing in or out of a crate is a natural response. I don't want Joseph to think that it is a mistake to crate his dog as needed when he has provided her with the appropriate exercise, mind work and bonding time. JMO but digging up a yard isn't any less OCD than chasing her tail. Both activities are a substitute for healthy outlets. I think I need to add pacing to the list too.

 Quote: Jane Jasper

Now, the OP has accepted that he needs to step up on the obedience aspect, but I want to hear how much more exercise he can realistically, day-after-day, every day, give this dog... what are his solutions to that deficiency? Because otherwise, as we all know, he's liable to come down heavy on a dog that's going stir crazy. And I'd like to know how much this dog gets yelled at.

HUH? I think this is out of line in this thread..Joseph is sincerely interested in doing right by his dog hence his questions and responses where are you getting that he'll come down heavy on his dog?

Joseph, my dog's breeder is in the greater Chicago area; I'll see if she has any suggestions for a behaviorist.

Ok, as a lot have said - you need help now!!

Suggestion 1 - get up even earlier. Instead of 2 1/2 blocks of walking with frequent stops, followed by a short period of obsessive unstructured chasing (which from what you have said seems to be her main exercise).... I would take up jogging or get a bike - she'll need to be built up to greater distance.

Suggestion 2 - come home at lunchtime. Take dog for as long a walk / run / cycle as you can. If this is not possible, find a dog walker at least a few days a week.

Suggestion 3 - when you come home, take dog for a shorter walk - try for somewhere new every day. Practice obedience.

Suggestion 4 - Later in the evening go for another long walk, try to find somewhere fenced to play fetch or whatever. If not I would consider teaching her tracking - it's extremely mental and will tire her out.

If you do decide to crate or tether, have your wife do some upbeat short training sessions throughout the day. Maybe teach your dog some silly tricks, anything to exercise her brain

As for advice on the aggression - IMHO (and I am a professional and deal with a lot of aggressive dogs) no one could or should give advice about this type of aggression over the internet or phone. The wrong type of advice could make her infinately worse, this is something I have seen happen - please don't. Whoever advises you NEEDS to see the dog, your house and talk to you in person!

Either get recommendations for a behaviourist from a vet, breeder, dog walker... whatever but personal recommendation is best. Then call them and ask what sort of experience do they have with aggression, do they like GSDs and things like that. If you like the sound of them (you may not and it's essential that you have a good relationship) follow up with an email a day or so later to clarify your details, arrange an appointment etc. This will give you an opinion on how reliable they are and things like that.

Also when you go to the vet please get a full exam of your dog (if you haven't already) including blood tests and a hip exam (not xray unless warranted) - there are some conditions that can create / exacerbate OCD behaviour and aggression.

Good luck

Ok, as a lot have said - you need help now!!

Suggestion 1 - get up even earlier. Instead of 2 1/2 blocks of walking with frequent stops, followed by a short period of obsessive unstructured chasing (which from what you have said seems to be her main exercise).... I would take up jogging or get a bike - she'll need to be built up to greater distance.

Suggestion 2 - come home at lunchtime. Take dog for as long a walk / run / cycle as you can. If this is not possible, find a dog walker at least a few days a week.

Suggestion 3 - when you come home, take dog for a shorter walk - try for somewhere new every day. Practice obedience.

Suggestion 4 - Later in the evening go for another long walk, try to find somewhere fenced to play fetch or whatever. If not I would consider teaching her tracking - it's extremely mental and will tire her out.

If you do decide to crate or tether, have your wife do some upbeat short training sessions throughout the day. Maybe teach your dog some silly tricks, anything to exercise her brain

As for advice on the aggression - IMHO (and I am a professional and deal with a lot of aggressive dogs) no one could or should give advice about this type of aggression over the internet or phone. The wrong type of advice could make her infinately worse, this is something I have seen happen - please don't. Whoever advises you NEEDS to see the dog, your house and talk to you in person!

Either get recommendations for a behaviourist from a vet, breeder, dog walker... whatever but personal recommendation is best. Then call them and ask what sort of experience do they have with aggression, do they like GSDs and things like that. If you like the sound of them (you may not and it's essential that you have a good relationship) follow up with an email a day or so later to clarify your details, arrange an appointment etc. This will give you an opinion on how reliable they are and things like that.

Also when you go to the vet please get a full exam of your dog (if you haven't already) including blood tests and a hip exam (not xray unless warranted) - there are some conditions that can create / exacerbate OCD behaviour and aggression.

Good luck

 Quote: Tanith Wheeler

As for advice on the aggression - IMHO (and I am a professional and deal with a lot of aggressive dogs) no one could or should give advice about this type of aggression over the internet or phone. The wrong type of advice could make her infinately worse, this is something I have seen happen - please don't. Whoever advises you NEEDS to see the dog, your house and talk to you in person!

Either get recommendations for a behaviourist from a vet, breeder, dog walker... whatever but personal recommendation is best. Then call them and ask what sort of experience do they have with aggression, do they like GSDs and things like that. If you like the sound of them (you may not and it's essential that you have a good relationship) follow up with an email a day or so later to clarify your details, arrange an appointment etc. This will give you an opinion on how reliable they are and things like that.

Also when you go to the vet please get a full exam of your dog (if you haven't already) including blood tests and a hip exam (not xray unless warranted) - there are some conditions that can create / exacerbate OCD behaviour and aggression.

Good luck

I agree completely... aggression can become worse w/the incorrect diagnosis & treatment. I second the veterinary re-eval when you find a new vet; after all, many a Doberman has been diagnosed as neurotic for having a lick granuloma when actually there was undiagnosed pain. Veterinary acupuncture may also be a direction to investigate.

You really need someone who can see your set-up, SEE how you & your wife interact w/the dog, realistically evaluate what you are able to provide in the way of time & energy & offer support & resources during the re-training.

If your neighborhood isn't safe after dark, do you have room for a treadmill in the apartment?

Also, here's a site for doggie mind games...
http://www.affordableagility.com/doggames.htm

 Quote: Jane Jasper

I realize that y'all strongly rec'd exercise first & foremost. My concern is that the crate becomes the default when life gets hectic, what w/jobs, holidays, & other responsibilities. It becomes a time factor for people w/busy lives. And tho' tethering the dog to you is preferable to crating, it's not an energy burner in the same way digging up the yard is (as much as we don't like it, it allows the dog to discharge a LOT of rather manic energy).

I think inexperienced or overbooked people tend to put the dog in the crate whenever it starts to get on their nerves a bit, or they have to focus on another task (like taking care of a baby). That's when a useful training tool begins to become a problem. An X-pen has more pacing room... not that pacing is wonderful, but it's movement that a crate doesn't allow, unless you've supersized the crate (I have a great dane sized one from when my dog was confined for 2 months post TPLO surgery; took up the whole living room).

Now, the OP has accepted that he needs to step up on the obedience aspect, but I want to hear how much more exercise he can realistically, day-after-day, every day, give this dog... what are his solutions to that deficiency? Because otherwise, as we all know, he's liable to come down heavy on a dog that's going stir crazy.

And I'd like to know how much this dog gets yelled at.

I don't agree with you at all regarding this...

Allowing this dog to pace and dig up the yard is just another form of tail chasing - and will not help the handler at all IMO

Tethering is not meant as exercise or a substitute therefor, it is meant as an environmental control tool that serves many purposes; housetraining, setting boundaries, controlling environment, ease of correction, and being able to redirect when needed.

If this dog is having its exercise needs met through mental and physical activity, then there is nothing wrong with crating the dog once its energy has been drained. Resting is resting, and the dog will do it when it has been exercised thoroughly. Also, if the dog is first conditioned to be calm (ie not tail chase) on both the leash and in the crate, then that same behavior can be transferred to other places and eventually the behavior can either be controlled or extinguished.