Quote: Darrell Kan

hi again,

The reason why we got the second dog was because a family friend of ours was going to give her up to the pound. We thought that we could give her a good home rather than potentially being put down

The reason why i feed them separately is because the Andy is a slow eater. Millie hoovers down here food and then will try to go after Andys. She has been bitten before for trying this. Andy will never go after her food.

The dogs will be together all day. Yes this was always the plan when we decided to adopt the beagle. Perhaps stupid in hindsight but my wife had dogs in the same situation with no issues.

Darrell, I can answer the food thing.

The rest is not a way I would ever live with dogs and I can't address it without a major change in what you're doing. Not only are dogs individuals and your wife's experiences in the past totally irrelevant to any other two dogs, but dogs living alone all day are going to become some kind of a dog-with-no-human-leader pack. You said "This is what i wish in my home too. How do i correct this?" You don't -- not without having control, training, management, and everything else that two dogs living on their own just do not have.

OK, the feeding:
You feed them completely separately, or you stand there as the sheriff while they eat (not too close to each other, and no dog is looming, hovering, eyeballing, or in any way threatening the food you have given). You have allowed a dog to threaten another one's food and you have allowed a dog to be bitten. This cannot happen. You've already set the stage for the worst kind of in-the-pack dogfight: over resources.

My dogs have now lived together for years, never any aggression. But I still stand there for every single meal. I always have and I always will. Even without the resource-guarding that I never want to happen, I want to be extremely clear that food I gave is now that dog's food, safe to enjoy, no matter if it takes one dog ten times longer than another to finish it. The hoover-dog is not even allowed to step near and look at the slow-eater's food.


The toys .... absolutely correct ("I don't leave toys in the backyard for them, just in case they fight").


Maybe someone else can help with the rest. I'm truly at a loss. No, I never let dogs "work it out." But I'm there, or they are separated. It takes a long time and many steps before two dogs are ever alone together here.

I'm sorry I can't be more help, such as with "no idea how to keep her occupied when im away. Andy will happily sleep all day."

I understand that you were doing a good deed and saving a dog; I really do.

But none of the ways I deal with a pack (more than one dog) works in a "leave them alone together all day" situation.

Millie spayed? Andy neutered?

You took the Beagle to keep her from the pound, you accomplished that, now I'd rehome the Beagle and let Andy enter his golden years in peace.

thanks and i appreciate the ideas

i was thinking it would it make sense to crate millie during the day and letting andy roam free in the backyard and only let the two mingle under supervision and her on a leash.

Correcting her when she performs dominating actions?

hi tammy, both of them have been de-sexed.

 Quote: Darrell Kan

thanks and i appreciate the ideas

i was thinking it would it make sense to crate millie during the day and letting andy roam free in the backyard and only let the two mingle under supervision and her on a leash.

Correcting her when she performs dominating actions?

I also would recommend rehoming Millie. Just my thoughts Darrell, I don't think it's fair to just lock up Millie in a crate, because she is showing dominance issues. What kind of life would that be?

It depends on what kind of corrections you are talking about too. Have you watched any of LB videos on building engagement and what about marker training?

If this dog has fear issues, or if you are not showing good leadership, this dog will have a tough time, and so will you.

I guess what I am saying is that I think it's going to take a lot more than a couple supervised leash
visits and a couple walks a day to get in control of these issues with Millie.
She is going to need a lot more from you than what she appears to be getting now.

Darrell;

Pardon me for being direct.
While your intentions were admirable, you have sacrificed the comfort and state of being of an eight year companion. I'm sure that you care about Andy, so you should be horrified when you see how Millie is being allowed to harass Andy. I'm bothered just hearing your descriptions.

IMHO, you have a mandate to manage these dogs separately, or find a better home for Millie. Of course, you could let the senior family member move into the house (Millie would be happier and less of a nuisance outside, by your description on the previous page). Other things you have said lead me to believe that this won't happen.

I feel so sorry for Andy. I hope that you separate these two and learn as much here as quickly as you can about managing multiple dogs individually.

Hi duane, understood no offense taken I want the best for Andy as well.

Well have to try to sort something out.. I know Andy will miss her.. He always mopes around the backyard while she's away.

Just wanted your opinion on something....does this look like play or harassment to you guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DAeZ97IkGU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I notice this happens every now and thrn , this time Andy isn't as animated and happy.but towards the end of the video you can see Millie jumping on him....this is the dominant behaviour I keep talking about

Darrell,

Good morning.

I am probably the most obnoxious of those who routinely respond in threads. So read between the lines.

I looked over the thread and followed the give and take.

You have decided to have two dogs. Why you have the dogs, where they came from , how long one has lived with you, etc. makes little difference to me. You have two dogs.

Dogs eat together in my world. Four GSDs. The bowl for each goes down. They are released by name or with a global OK to eat, and they can not go to another dog's bowl. Period. A dog should be able to eat in peace, just as I like to eat in peace without anyone taking food from my plate. Training. The key to a calm and managed meal time is training. It is simple. My food, my bowls, my rules.

Outside. Certain behavior is not tolerated. Emphasis on not tolerated. I am the dominant member of the pack. My wife is the dominant leader of the pack. The same with any human. A dog tries to dominant another, and I immediately correct it. Various tools are collars and leads. A booming voice. No negotiation. The dogs fully compliant with the command NO!

I expect the dogs to get along. I work with my mutts to make cast iron sure they do. I do not in any way shape or manner condone by inconsistent oversight nor do I overlook any behavior I do not want. I correct behavior decisively when necessary. Mostly corrections are voice tone or a touch but

Training, and training corrections are one thing. Correction for unwanted behavior can be another. Sorry if that bugs anyone.

Two dogs: have to be dead even in the pecking order. No dog in my world is above another in the order of the house. Four dogs complying with my rules. And my rules are non negotiable. If you spend a lot of time focusing on one dog or letting the other dog get away with stuff because it has been around longer, you are setting the table for a poor meal.

If there is behavior I don't like it is not uncommon for me to address all the dogs at the same time with an eye to the offender. All the dogs need to be reminded that certain behavior is just not going to happen.

I have found that my way of working with the dogs expedites the integration of foster dogs. They come into the group and I don't care what their background is for the purpose of my rules. I work with dogs in the context that the only leader in their world is me. They don't have to worry about leading or following or getting out of the way. They can be dogs.

Now, I have one or two dogs and have definitely had foster dogs that have been and can be challenges but the rules are the rules are the rules and I get to make them. My rules are designed for a pleasant environment in which I can thoroughly enjoy the dogs. Out of control dogs are not fun.

So. Stop the behavior you don't want. Reward the behavior you do. Don't vary your rules from day to day. Don't let slide stuff today that you corrected for yesterday. Define your objective. Mine is to have harmony in the pack. Takes effort but the outcome is really nice.

In my opinion, you can't train the dogs separately for behavior you want them to exhibit together. So, stuffing one in the crate and indulging the other ain't a good strategy in my opinion. Get two crates. If you want one in the crate put the other one in a crate. Treat them the same. Dogs get it. And I don't use the crate as a penalty box. If they are in a crate, it is for a purpose other than penalty or discipline.

OK. I'll stop. My last admonition is to simply be the leader and reward what you like and correct what you don't like in the context of consistent training.

 Quote: Darrell Kan

Hi duane, understood no offense taken I want the best for Andy as well.

Well have to try to sort something out.. I know Andy will miss her.. He always mopes around the backyard while she's away.

Just wanted your opinion on something....does this look like play or harassment to you guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DAeZ97IkGU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I notice this happens every now and thrn , this time Andy isn't as animated and happy.but towards the end of the video you can see Millie jumping on him....this is the dominant behaviour I keep talking about

Looks like they get along fine. I don't see any dominant anything. There's a size difference, so she's jumping up and he looks like he's tolerant and not bothered at all.

Can she get to be a little too much for him sometimes? Probably. He looks like he can handle it perfectly. I think you just need to adjust some things in the way you feed them and handle them yourself, and even though there's always a chance of problems, it looks to me like you've got a pretty good match there.

Darrell, the problem is that you have plans to leave the dogs alone all day together in the backyard.

in my opinion Millie being alone with Andy all day is going to be a problem for Andy.
Plus, since you aren't there during the day to continue the training and stop her from bullying Andy you're always going to go a few steps back in training. It's about repetition and consistency...and if you work with her four hours the night before then she's left alone with Andy for 8 or 10 hours the next day without supervision and repercussions for her actions (because you aren't there) the training will go out the window and you will have to start all over again.

I have a dog aggressive dog right now so I will never own another dog while I have Tucker. But lets say I chose to get another dog, and I worked with Tucker and the other dog so that they could be together in the same house when I am home. Perfect.
But I would never ever leave them alone together. Why? Because I wouldn't be there to prevent something from happening and coming home to a catastrophe.

Now, I am not going against what Mike above said...but I have a feeling that Mikes dogs, when there's a foster involved, aren't left alone for long periods of time. (Mike correct me if I am wrong) I personally think that is where you are going to run into trouble.

 Quote: steve strom

Can she get to be a little too much for him sometimes? Probably. He looks like he can handle it perfectly.

Steve, do you mean you think he should just let the dogs work it out themselves????