Quote: Chip Bridges

After getting the results, they said a slightly leaky tricuspid valve and the right side isn't perfectly symmetrical, but nothing out of the ordinary for a bulldog _or_ a 14 year old dog, let alone that combination. No fluid, so stop Lasix. BUT, it could still be heart, so they gave me the most expensive dog meds they had, with no human equivalent or generic - Vetmedin, 5mg, 1 1/2 tablets twice daily. She said Viagra was the second drug she would try. At least that's one I could potentially buy over the internet without a prescription.

I still suspect a low grade epilepsy or underlying neurological condition. She waves her head back and forth before these episodes (I used to call it "Stevie Wonder") before I realized it was more than a weird dog trait/OCD type thing. Add to that how she drools and licks. And this is a dog that never drools in spite of her breed's reputation, and flat out doesn't lick.

Chip, from what you described in your previous posts, the panting, extending her neck, and breathing difficulty, I was picturing something quite different, but when you mentioned waving her head back and forth and your suspicion of a neurological condition, it got me thinking. She's not doing something like this, is she?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xCZTdv4EUw

There is a condition called idiopathic head tremor that is common in Bulldogs and a few other breeds, including Dobermans, and I witnessed it for the first time a couple nights ago in a Doberman I have been fostering. What I have learned is it can manifest itself either as the head bobbing up and down in a "yes" fashion (my foster was doing that), or it could be from side to side in a "no" fashion. Of course you may know all about the head tremors already, having owned your bulldog for a long time.

As to the Vetmedin, I am very familiar with it. Dobermans are prone to a condition called dilated cardiomyopathy, and Vetmedin (pimobendan) is commonly prescribed. I have a 10-year-old Dobe who has been taking it for four years. Yes, it's expensive, but when she started on it, we noticed an almost miraculous improvement. She wasn't expected to live more than a few months at the time. She also takes two other cardiac meds along with it.

Thank you for that. Oh, that was heartbreaking to see, but looks unlike the precursor to this. With Shortie it's a slow sway, honestly a lot like Stevie Wonder when he'd sing. I don't have it on video, but will be sure to grab my phone next time I see it. Seems to happen a couple of times a week, so I should be able to capture it soon.

It's been a long day so we will start her on the medication in the morning. If the meds work, we will stay with them. I could be completely wrong but it just seems unintuitive to me that this is cardiac related.

 Quote: Chip Bridges

Thank you for that. Oh, that was heartbreaking to see, but looks unlike the precursor to this. With Shortie it's a slow sway, honestly a lot like Stevie Wonder when he'd sing. I don't have it on video, but will be sure to grab my phone next time I see it. Seems to happen a couple of times a week, so I should be able to capture it soon.

Yeah, I was pretty sure the head tremor was not exactly what you were dealing with, but since I've just had my own experience with it, I wondered if it might be just one small factor in what's going on with your dog, based on the fact she is one of the susceptible breeds. I've done a crash course in research about it in the last couple of days. I don't want to take this thread off topic, but anybody who is interested can Google it and learn more about it. The main thing is it is considered benign and doesn't seem to affect the dog's overall health.

Back to Shortie, it sounds like there just haven't been any easy answers for you guys yet. I'm sure your vets are doing their very best to get to the bottom of this and find treatment options that will give her some relief. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Let us know how it goes.

Have you guys looked in to acid reflux? Lots of dogs with acid reflux will gulp air, lick and drool... moving her head side to side may be her trying to make the burn go away...

Just a thought - acid reflux is often misdiagnosed.

Best of luck!!

Kel

I mentioned that as a possibility discussing it with the latest vet and she didn't think it was likely, after seeing the video.. But a couple of days in on the new drug doesn't seem to be having effect yet. If after our two week supply runs out there's no marked improvement, I may try pepcid.

I'm beginning to think more and more that this is something not physiological. We have successfully stopped a couple of episodes by distraction and treats. Or at least delayed them for a longer time than would seem possible if she were having trouble breathing. Lots of stuffed kongs and such on hand for the next few nights.

I am totally grasping at straws, but one other issue that I have tremendous experience with is vestibular syndrome - Drift was born with it and we have occasional episodes.

When Drift gets "unbalanced" she tends to stare at the ceiling to get her bearings, but when she was a pup, she would sway a bit while just sitting there... and she would drool quite a bit because she would be a bit nauseated... and she would pant and whine because she was confused at what was happening...

I know that vestibular is common in older dogs - just thought I would throw it out there as something else to consider...

Kel

Thanks, Kel. I'll look into that. I have a gut feeling that this is going to be an oddball diagnosis. It's been three nights of no episodes, so I'm encouraged; though I am skeptical that the meds would work quite this quickly. If after the two week trial she continues to do well, I'll have to do some research on the Vetmedin to see if I can get it at a better price. It's over $500 per month from the emergency hospital, but surely is available other places since we have an open script.

I want to thank everyone so much that has posted. I was worried and sleep-deprived and didn't respond to several that I should have. Happy dog days to you all.

 Quote: Chip Bridges

If after the two week trial she continues to do well, I'll have to do some research on the Vetmedin to see if I can get it at a better price. It's over $500 per month from the emergency hospital, but surely is available other places since we have an open script.

Chip, I tried to PM you, but once again, the PM feature does not work for me. It hasn't in a very long time. Wish I knew why.

So I'm going to post a link here to a very reputable pet and livestock supply company that I have dealt with ever since my dog had to go on Vetmedin four years ago. It's Valley Vet, valleyvet.com. They have the lowest price I have found for that drug. You do need a script, of course, but they are very easy to deal with and will even call your vet for the authorization if you wish. It's still not a cheap drug, but you will find it to be waaaaay more affordable than the price you're currently paying. And I'm not knocking your emergency vet. I know they charge more for things at the ER, whether it's human or animal.

I don't know if it will turn out that the Vetmedin helps or not. Whatever is going on with Shortie does not seem to be lending itself to an easy diagnosis. I do hope you get some answers soon.

Chip, I know that you are following up on this assiduously with the vet(s) as well as getting sound feedback here, so I just wanted to mention a couple of brachy issues that Cheri touched upon earlier in the thread.

BOAS, elongated soft palate, Brachycephalic Syndrome, etc., might be titles to read up on, at least for an overview.

https://www.acvs.org/small-animal/brachycephalic-syndrome

And also Google brachycephalic dog has to stretch neck to breathe to get to most of the brachy respiration links.

Thanks again, everyone. I wanted to experiment a little before reporting back, to not waste anyone's time. I also didn't want this to be another thread where the OP just dropped off and nobody knows what happened, so here is an update.

The Vetmedin seems to be working. I got a two week supply at the emergency hospital, and three days into it, she ceased having the night issues. I decided to try a week off to see if it was coincidental, and on the third night she had another episode. So I started her back, and after two more night episodes, it ceased again. Cheri, thank you for the Valley Vet link. They were out of 5mgs, but I will order from them next time, as it is the best price I could find after extensive Googling.

What hasn't stopped are the weird "Stevie Wonder" symptoms, where she rocks her head back and forth, backs up to my leg ot chair, seems in a trance, then licks the foot of the chair. That is happening about once a night, but doesn't appear to stress her. Sometimes she'll even champ a few times, like a true pre-seizure dog, though has never had a full on bout of epilepsy (at least when we were home). I try to distract her, push her rump off of me, or otherwise "break the spell" with treats or so forth to no avail. As long as the behavior doesn't get worse and she sleeps through the night, I'm fine to just deal with it as one of her "old lady" quirks.

This is the best dog forum on the Internet, and I appreciate all the advice I've gotten over the years. I cannot thank you all enough, and only hope that I can be a better contributor in the future.