That is a horse Dave of a diffrent color. IT is one's perseption of drives. I see SCH3FH2 point, but I also think I understand what Kevin is saying. It depends on your ideas and views. It also depends on the dog, for which drive in the described situtation you are rewarding.
Its not clear to me whether giving a prey bite will reward defensive behavior or simply teach the dog to avoid defensive behavior and stay in prey mode.
I wonder if a defense bite could be given using a hidden sleeve (before the dog learns what it is). With a hidden sleeve, no prey "booty" is given so the helper would possibly go to the ground as though in pain or run away to as a reward for fighting through defense.
Originally posted by Dave Lilley: Its not clear to me whether giving a prey bite will reward defensive behavior or simply teach the dog to avoid defensive behavior and stay in prey mode.
...the helper would possibly go to the ground as though in pain or run away to as a reward for fighting through defense. Actually, giving the bite isn't really the point. The dog's defensive behavior is aimed at one goal - driving away or defeating the threat. That could be accomplished by the helper backing off slowly, signifying his defeat thru averted eyes, body posture etc., or he can actually run away (which would stimulate prey) and the dog can either get a bite or not, doesn't really matter. The goal was achieved, the threat was driven away, thus the behavior was reinforced. The bite is incidental.
Originally posted by Dave Lilley: Its not clear to me whether giving a prey bite will reward defensive behavior or simply teach the dog to avoid defensive behavior and stay in prey mode.
I wonder if a defense bite could be given using a hidden sleeve (before the dog learns what it is). With a hidden sleeve, no prey "booty" is given so the helper would possibly go to the ground as though in pain or run away to as a reward for fighting through defense.
It depends what drive you are trying to "satisfy" or what drives you wish to manipulate to ultimately achieve that aspect pertaining to the dog whilst training. When we evoke various drives it is for a reason and depending on the dog as an individual we act accordingly. What drives the dog? This will have a different effect on the dog, some get "drive satisfaction" in another case the dog may be "relieved" of the drive related to stress, also considering where the dog is at with its training. All in progression, the drives must be balanced to get the correct "mind set" to do the job required.
There is a principle that states that the best method to practice a behavior is under the same, or nearly the same, conditions as the "test" will be performed in. If you want the dog to bite in defense, then do some training where the bite is done in defense. If you start with defense and convert to prey for the bite you reinforce the prey bite. From a practicle stand point the problem with this is the dog doesn't learn to bite under the pressure of defense and waits for the prey behavior to bite. By switching to prey you do reward the behaviors associated with the defense, barking and hcakling, but not the bite.
If you have a dog that has become locked in defense, you can stimulate the prey response this way. You work the dog in defense and switch to prey just before the bite. By expanding the time before the prey bite is given. If you want to break a dog out of prey do the opposite, start with the prey and then move to defense before the bite.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird.
Okay... this is a bit theoretical but its important... In operant conditioning....
A reward ALWAYS INCREASES the behavior.
It may depend on the dog... if I want to reward defense or fight drive but teach the dog to channel or relieve stress into prey... we will likely see LESS DEFENSIVE behavior (showing teeth, snapping, etc) and MORE PREY behavior (tail wagging, high bark etc.)
Ultimately, I want a dog WILL bite in defense or fight.
Exactly, the problem is it rewards the BEHAVIOR right before the reward. The behavior you want to encourage is the bite, and under the condition of the stress created by working the dog in defense. In order to do that the bite needs to be done in that type of a situation. Since there are other behaviors asscociated with defense, switching to prey will reward those behaviors, not the bite. The switch to prey and then giving the bite rewards the prey bite. With most dogs the bite is reinforcing, in defense you can use the behavior of the decoy after the bite to relieve the stress and increase the reward value of the bite.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird.
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