Photo of Grantsville, Utah SWAT Team w/ an American Bulldog can be found here:

http://magnus.home.mchsi.com/temp/tempphotos.htm

Wow, I just read all the posts above my last. Sorry to create such a stir...LOL....great discussion though!!

Here is the link that tells about Sergeant Brent Rowley And His K9 Officer "Bruiser", an AB.

http://www.geocities.com/psi_site2/PSIABPoliceOfficerBruiser.htm

Not saying the are not telling the truth but it must be one heck of a dog to do Bomb, Narc and Patrol....and be solid white in color on a SWAT team...maybe they use camo paint before using him...LOL

Wow, I forgot about Granstville being a town in Utah..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .......my hat is off to you Max.

Is that AB certified though? Maybe Kevin knows for certain, but I do not think Utah POST requires even the SWAT dogs to be certified, thoug it is heavily recommended. Any clarification?

Originally posted by Drew Corry:
Is that AB certified though? Maybe Kevin knows for certain, but I do not think Utah POST requires even the SWAT dogs to be certified, thoug it is heavily recommended. Any clarification? I don't recall if he passed his certs nor what certs he was trying for at the one event i saw him at.
utah post certs are not mandatory under state law.

On another note. There has been a bunch of very unclear info propagated in this thread. I personally wouldn't go out and with the idea that I should find a APBT or AB to do police work. I'll stick to tried and true and certainly less controversial breeds in general for the work. But, if that's what ya got and they meet standard why not? other than the public relations end of it of course.
I've done schutzhund based work with some AB's and APBT/Am Staffs and I deal with quite a few on the street in my local.
They aren't harder biting, or too hard gripping for police work. many are too doggy for my environment, too short, and often lack the tracking and scent work abilities that many of the more traditional breeds have.
yet, one of my schutzhund club members has one of my favorite dogs to work in protection which is a APBT. I also think that they make a great healthy rugged home dog. Theyare big but not large, healthy as can be, and a lot of fun. That still doesn't mean they should fill the ranks of police and tactical operations.
Heck, maybe one day when I feel like having a novelty on the end of a leash I'll train one for sport. I always enjoy them, they look like frogs.

Now that was funny.


Ribbit-ribbit.

See, I knew that is what would happen.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

1st , no I do not train nor do I participate in LE work with my dogs. I do not think they are suitable for this type of work, so, NO I am not on the street as a cop working with an APBT...#1, they are illegal in Denver, #2 i am not a cop.

2nd - PSI has never to my knowledge, been measured in any breed of dog in any kind of empirical study with reliable results. The fact of bite in the APBT vs other breeds is not the point. APBT's do not apply any more pressure than other dogs per se, they just bite hard because they want to bite hard and getting this tendency out of their stubborn little heads is difficult, not impossible but difficult.

3rd - The argument here, that I was making, incase there has been a slight case of targeted forgetfulness, is that APBT's will probably never be used by police for patrol duty because of a great many things, but this does not mean they are not great dogs for other things, ie narc, s&r etc (border patrol dog in texas = most recovered narcotics by ANY K-9), and APBT's if you analyze the statistics served very well in NY after 9-11 in search and rescue. They win multiple titles in all sorts of activities (see bandog's Dread), and are very suitable for many kinds of work. Just not patrol work.

4th - the my breed is better than your breed argument is retarded and meaningless....GSD's and Malinois are typically much better suited for patrol and LE work. No doubt about it. Why? Their versatility and intelligence and maleability to the will of the owner. They excel at most of the things required of a police dog. WIll they ever win a weight pull title? Not if there is any APBT over 35#'s at the pull, will they ever win a dog fight against any mastiff breed? nope, but dog fights are stupid and they were not bred for that....Will they ever make a good combat dog (ie Rotties and AB's and APBT type dogs in dog human combat? Probably not...not as high a pain tolerence...blah blah blah...They do what they do exceedingly well, as does the other breeds of dogs that do what they were bred to do....

Again, APBT's are NOT good candidates for Patrol work, but for other types of PSD work, they do very well indeed...

AB's ARE being used by the military in a great many roles, including tracking, interdiction activities and general K-9 duties. See the 519th MP in Panama/Honduras...A great dog with many good qualities for working dogs, but again, coloration (camo paint might not help...take to long to paint...LOL) different drive etc may keep them out of the mainstream of K-9 work, but not because of their ability...

As far as APBT's not getting there fast enough, is that because of decision making time, or physical running? I would find it hard ot believe they are not fast enough to get anywhere they need to as fast as any other dog...

Good thread though...SO far...LOL

I question the dog-human combat statement.......I would believe that many Malinois' have an extremely high threshhold for pain. My trainer's former K9 had his guts hanging out from a mini-14 blast....the dog kept on going as if he didn't know he had been hit.......In fact, I would think most LE breeds are high pain tolerant. My Malinois just fights harder whne pain is inflicted.....she enjoys it.

I believe that many breeds, including the LE breeds, and the breeds you referenced all have high threshholds for pain. If the Malinois or GSD did not have the threshhold necessary to fight a human and win......they would not be used for patrol....simply put.

Thought you guys might find this interesting. Another pit bull being used in police work.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/working_bull_dog_homepage/alen.htm

Enjoy.