A hard dog,within reason, can be better for an inexperienced handler because he can tolerate poor corrections without falling apart.

It isn't hard that requires an experienced handler, it is rank. Different things. An experienced handler is required with a rank dog to be able to establish and maintain the proper relationship between the dog and handler (and to keep the dog from nailing them on a regular basis). It is more important to be able to read a dog as Rank and Dominance behaviors increase. You need to be able to intervene before the dog goes after someone (including you).

This might help your question Eyvette,
HARDNESS - Resilient towards unpleasant experiences
RANK DRIVE - To achieve higher rank in the pack. Often one-man dogs (Biting or growling at handler while under stress)

Sooo....could you have a "hard" dog (resilient towards unpleasant experiences: one that springs back from a correction without a grudge or loss of drive)

AND a "handler sensitive" dog (one that has a strong pack drive: wants to work for the handler, so will respond to corrections in a positive manner)

....all in one animal?

1. Yes

2. I think handler sensitive doesn't really have anything to do with rank necessarily. I think handler sensitive doesn't get over mistakes or bad situations without leaving a mark. It takes it awhile to get over a bad situation it in it's mind. It's not as forgiving, instead of moving along.

Do you mean can a dog have hardness and have rank or dominance tendencies? I think so. Don't quote me on that but I would think. A hard dog can cut on and off their behavior because they don't carry negative things with them. They get over things fast.

Yes, it isn't as likely as a hard dog that is handler hard. Some breeds will carry these types of chacteristics. Chessie and BRT are two I have had experience with. These breeds tend to be hard, but sensitive to their handler. In these types of cases the dog will often not seem effected by a physical correction, but yell at them and they will respond.

Isn't handler senitive sometimes a dog that isn't as forgiving or one that can't tolerate error because it doesn't recover from that? Or is it a dog that doesn't require hard corrections? Sorry guys that I didn't put that on a different thread. Go gentle on me . . .

well my questions have been answered and i now have a better understanding of the key terms: nervy dogs, dominant dogs, hard dogs,etc.......

so what do i want? i do want a hard dog. quite frankly because i don't like little wimpy dogs. i like a dog that can take a correction, and like some one mentioned earlier, get his act together, and keep on with the lesson.
so yes i want a hard dog. i also want a dog that is a bit on the sharp side. and i want a bit of dominance in there, i figure as long as i'm taking care of business and i let him know who the pack leader is, and keep him assured that he will not be sliding into my position anytime in this life time,I should be A.o.k. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Picking a dog like this I think will help by making a good puppy selection. The puppy test is something you might want to look into.

Before we leave the subject, may I verify my understanding of the results of this discussion?

HARDNESS - Resilient towards unpleasant experiences; can take hard corrections without falling out of drive

SOFTNESS - Opposite of above; folds easily on hard corrections and loses desire to work; will have to be worked with a light touch in order to keep in drive.

RANK DRIVE - Desire to achieve higher rank in the pack. Dominant dog, seeks top dog position in pack; may challenge leader/handler.

HANDLER SENSITIVE - Strong pack drive; willing to work for the leader/handler without challenge

HANDLER HARD - Not the same as HARD dog, though sometimes concurrent; more related to RANK; may have pack drive but is willing to challenge the leader/handler for top dog position.

Though handler-hard dogs seem to be viewed through a "macho" lens (in our group at least), I would not want to try to train one. Every training session could become one of challenge, and while some folks thrive on that, I am more interested in getting to my goal than proving myself boss to a dog. Just my preference, you understand. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />