Pauline,

Are you sure they will portect the house? That is the problem, too many people think that just because it is a Dobe (or Rott, or GSD, or BRT, or any of several other breeds) that it will protect. Often they put up a good display, but will it work when the chips are down? Most of them will fold and run like hell and leave the owners to fend for themselves. Most of have seen way too many dogs that were sold as protectors because they were a ......, but none had ever been tested. Not the parents or any of the progeney. If the line has no protection background, figure it won't protect. It will make some noise, but not protect.

My main concern is not protection - my pups mother does not have an aggressive bone in her body - she is a barker but who knows if she would really "protect". I basically wanted a dog that would sound off when someone was at the door. But most of all I wanted a dog that would be good with my kids, and a loyal, loving family member. That's the most important to me. I have read that dobies are being bred more as family animals now so I just wondered if there was something wrong with that?

There is only something wrong with it if you expect your dog to do the work it was originally intended to do, like protection work, guarding, police work, etc..

If you want a nice pet there is not anything wrong with the dog per say. . .I guess. :rolleyes:

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> This is a working dog board so why don't you ask that same question on a pet dog board. Most of us would say. . hell yes. . .the dog is crap. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Nothing personal, working dog people have a different set of qualities we value.

Hello All:
Pauline, if you have a great pet and family dog that you want to get along with you and kids and
things of that nature, great. Finding a good healthy pet in any breed is a good find and I'm sure you consider yourself a good pet owner and your puppy is probably happy.

But, can I ask you this - and let me say I am not trying to get down on you or anyone on this board, ok? Why would you want to pick a dobe? Dobes are known or should I say, were know to be #1 a protection breed #2 a dog with strong character #3 a dog who has in the past served as a war/sentry dog #4 a dog who at one time was capable of doing service or police work? Have you ever owned a strong working dog before?

I always wonder why people are driven to a specific breed (by this I mean average pet owners, not working or sport enthusist). If they want to do sport or protection work, then common sense would dictate that they will search the various working breeds. If they just want a low key family pet who will bark when neighbors knock at the dog and want to minimize the mouthing and potential accidental bites that are almost surely to occur down the road, they have so many other options (various labs, etc) including rescue and adoption.

You said the lady you got your dog from had 4 dobes? Was she a breeder, does she work and test and train her dogs? Does she participate in any work or sport or service type of training with her dogs? Or is she just a backyard breeder?I think people are much happier pet owners when they do good research about the breed and visit various breeders and talk to people and evaluate potential litters, etc. Part of this is knowing what you are going to end up with in 18-24 months.

There is nothing wrong when you get a dog that has no other function than being an average pet for your average run of the mill pet owner. But like someone else said, "it becomes a problem if you expect the dog to do what is was originally bred to do." But when you get a puppy from a breed that is known to be suspicious of strangers, dominate, aggressive, prone to fear biting and having a problem with nerves and stability and you put that puppy in an environment where you expect it to be a family pet/lap dog - you're almost guaranteed to have problems and accidental bites down the road, especially with kids around. Hope I didn't ruffle to many feathers.
Train Smart,
Brandon

Hey All:
Just to equate things about this dog vs that dog - If you are looking for a medium sized (say 40-50 lbs)dog, This is the exact arguement that you will hear from some breeders. These breeders will tell you their dogs get along great with the kids and family and they bond really close with the handler. They have great temperments and they never have problems with aggression or bad nerves. Almost everyone would like a pet like that for their kids, right?
You can open up any classified section in any town in America and for $250 you will be able to buy a Pit Bull, Chow-Chow or Shar-Pei puppy and still have some $$ left over for lunch and gas. Have people forgot that these dogs were originally bred for fighting? Ever go to the pound or ASPCA and notice how many Pits and Chows are there - ever wonder why? If you turn on your TV and put on "Yo MTV Raps" you won't be able to watch videos for 15 minutes (if you can stand it that long - I can't-smile) until you see a gansta rap video with pit bulls in it. If you live in an area near any large urban city (New York, LA, DC, Detroit, Chicago, Atlanta, etc) ask the cops out there in your city, or the people who work in that profession (or related ones) on this board and ask them how much more focused they become when they are on a call or doing a bust and they find out that the people have 3-4 pit bulls on the property. You will find the same argument about the Jack Russell Terrier (the kids wanted one because they watch "wishbone" or "Frazier" those are some hard dogs in a 15 lbs package). I think it is a good idea that being new to working dogs that you are on this board, take advantage from the people here who have a lot of knowledge, I would seriously recommend that you start to read some of the Q&A sections on this board (how to raise a puppy, dominate dogs, fear biters, etc). Get a few tapes and get started with a formal OB class with someone who can deal with the habits and ideosyncracies of the dobe before your cute little puppy turns into hand full.
Train Smart,
Brandon

Ok - I will share the reason with you all why it is that we purchased a dobie. First of all, I think they're beautiful. Second, I know 3 families with that have dobes who swear by them as family pets. One family is on their 4th dobe and their kids have grown up with them. Another family is on their 2nd and they claim she is an angel with their baby girl. The other family is an older couple that have had dobes as pets all their lives. This, coupled with some other experiences I have had meeting dobermans is what convinced me to purchase one. I am originally a great dane lover and have had several danes but my experiences with dobies led me to try one. So my understanding from all of you is that dobies really should not be bred as family pets but should be bred to do the work they were originally intended to do?? This means that they would not make the best family companions? What about people who breed soley for comformation purposes like my breeder? Wouldn't they try to breed out things like nervousness and being wary of strangers for show ring purposes? Wouldn't you want a dog with a very sound temperment to be in the show ring? I'm just asking - I joined this board because I felt like there was very valuable training info. -not just for people who want to train their dog to work but for normal pet owners who own working dogs. I felt like I could gain a lot of knowledge here. Chancellor will be going to obedience and I would like to continue in different levels with him. My breeder said that obedience for these dogs is essential because they will make your life miserable without it. I don't know if anyone has heard of "The Repo Man" but she will be breeding her bitch to his son in Dec. I'm very excited about that! Anyway - I value input etc.

Pauline

I USE to belong to a club in Spokane washington and a woman in the club raises Dobies..she had good ones too! national champion dobies I am told. IF yall want her name I can get it for you..and maybe yall have heard of her. When I was helping at the club, she had some great females that were awsome in protection. REALLY Obedient, and tracked like mad! I forget her name, sorry its been too long ago. It was Willie Popes club in Spokane wa. The Schutzhund USA regional club names will tell you all the information youd like. Me? I am a GSD lover. plain and simple.

Ok Pauline, You Asked

Why would you go out and buy a car if what you need is to haul manure around? Or get a car that you can't ever drive because the radio was really good? Why not identify what it is you need and want and then select for the purpose? If you pick the breed first because it "Looks Cool", and then what you get is a dog bred for a purpose other than it was intended you don't have that breed. You have another breed that LOOKS like the breed. American Dobe, Rott, GSD and on and on are all prime examples of what is wrong with this type of selection. The problem it creates is that when someone wants a real example of the breed, it doesn't exist any more.

A prime example of this is a woman I know. She decided she likes the look and temperament of one dog of a breed she handled for a show. She wants a new breed for conformation showing, and maybe to do some SAR work, she really believes that a protection trained dog is dangerous and unpredictable. So she selected a breed with some fairly strong aggressive tendancies towards strangers, weighs 130#, and believes that by really working with the breed they can be made more acceptable for the general public (after all there is no reason to have a real protection dog anyway). She also believes that most unintended dog bites are a result of protection trained dogs, not untrained poorly socialized dogs. May be she should look at the stastics? Get the feeling that another breed is on the way out?

Wonder why many of the protection dog people are really up in arms about what is happening in the protection breeds. A lot of people will tell you that it isn't necessary to have dogs that can do real work, that their dogs are really better examples of the breed because they can't do what they were intended for. There are 150 breeds recognized by the AKC, another hand full or two of breeds recognized by UKC, ARBA, and several other registries, I think that you can find a breed that meets your needs and desires WITHOUT changing a breed to a new and different breed than it was intended. Within PROPER WORKING temperament there are breeds that meet your needs. Just because a dog is of a breed that does protection work doesn't mean that the dog has to be protection trained. If you want a dog that is going to be good with the kids and protect, select a breed that can do that. Deal with what that means in a dog, do the training the dog requires, and you will have a better dog. It may not be a Doberman (or other Cool Looking breed) but it will make you happier because it meets your needs. Dogs with the proper training and proper working temperament are likely to be better with the kids because the dog has been bred for a stable temperament that meets the need, rather than a dog that was bred first for it's appearance and then for a temperament that is the opposite of the breeds intended make-up.

In many breeds there are 2 or more National breed clubs, one that is the only voting perresentation in the AKC and one that represents the dogs that can meet the inteded purpose the breed was intended for. It many cases they are recgonizably different breeds even though they carry the same name. The GSD is a prime example. There are 2 main clubs for the GSD: GSDCA that votes in the AKC meetings, and USA that is about working dogs. In reality they represent 2 seperate breeds. In the Giant Schnauzer many of the people that do protection dogs have started to call their dogs Reisenschnauzers and compare them to the Giant Schnauzer. Why? One is a very dominant, rank, guard/protection dog with a shorter "hard" coat. The other is less rank, less dominant, and has a longer fluffier coat. They are 2 different breeds. Why is this the case? Because too many people will pick the breed first and then attempt force it in to a mold that doesn't fit. When it doesn't fit the intended purpose, why just change the breed, why select a breed that meets the need?

Pauline, my mother likes pit bulls. They have a wonderfully sweet personality with people. She would really like to have one as her next dog. However, she's not running out and buying one because she isn't sure she could control one when it saw another dog. She will probably end up with a pit bull mix from the shelter instead, so that it can be tested to make sure that it's not dog agressive. If she can't find a pit bull mix that suits her needs she will look for another breed mix. Instead of trying to find a breeder that turns working dogs into mushballs, she's going to save a dog's life and get a more suitable dog.

Why? Because right now we have a show line GSD, Auster. Auster is everything a GSD shouldn't be. She will pull you over to a stranger in hopes of them petting her. She does have enough drive to scratch a flea, but she couldn't do any real work. She bloated and now has to have home made food. She has an autoimmune disease called pannus that will slowly blind her. There are enough dogs dying in shelters every day that a breeder shouldn't aim to produce a dog like Auster.

If you want a pet, there's plenty in shelters and it doesn't make it impossible to find a working dog should you ever need one. It might sound silly, but you could find yourself in a car wreck tomorrow, and because the dobe has been bred to be pets you will have a very hard time finding one that could be an assistance dog.

In fact, many assistance dog programs are now using dogs from rescues because working ability is so hard to find in "working" breeds. They are just as likely to find a suitable dog at a shelter.

That's a very sad day for dog breeds in the US.

Pauline
As you can see, the people on this board truly believe a dog should be able to perform the functions it was bred for. I hunt with terriers, and I would not consider getting one that wasn't from true working lines. You loose so much when you go for "looks" If your patient and persistant enough, a GOOD breeder of working line dogs could select a pup from a litter that would fit your requirements. The key, after selecting the right dog, is, selecting a QUALITY trainer.
The people here are very passionate about their "REAL" dogs.