Just curious....

Anyone else get a phone call from "The Hulk Patrick" from UltimateK9???

Well I get this call about an hour ago, "Yeah is Lorenzo in. Yea this is Patrick from UltimateK9. Someone called me and said you were bashing me on Leerburg. Let me tell you something you can bring any one of your best real decoys and let them do some agitation with my dogs and blah,blah,blah, blah,. Oh and I take threats seriously. I'm a big guy too, blah, blah,blah, blah <CUT!!!!!!>

ME: Bashing?? Dude don't waste my cell time. (Hangs up phone)

Now answer me this (yes I said answer me this). Where's the bashing? The truth hurts. Dogs look sporty so what???

Sounds like inferiority complex to me...

Yep, He called me also- to his credit he was polite but he talked *so* much that after asking him several times if I could get a word in edge wise, I finally hung up on him. I wish he and I could have had a conversation, but that requires a two-way communication, and he wanted to make his point so bad that it was more of a lecture.

After he went on and on how that his male Rottie "would kill a man" ( this was repeated at least twice at which point I started having trouble maintaining the conversation...oh well, that pretty much turned me off of the conversation.
Again, he was polite with me though, which I appreciated. I hope I was polite in kind, until I hung up.



I actually just reviewed the video as the owner disagreed regarding many of our views on the video.

I will say that after review I still see that the dogs are trained entirely on forearm bites with the rare exception of tricep catches for the escape/ flee exercise. I do not see the intensity that I'd require of a good sport dog, much less a ppd that I'd risk my life with.
The owner assured me that many decoys and helpers have been bruised by his dogs during training ( I can't see where the intensity of the bites would cause this, so I'll assume that's due to equipment failure)

I also don't feel that we're bashing the kennel, if you make claims and they don't appear to be backed up by the video, well....what's an experienced person to think? Maybe his dogs are *much* better than the video suggests, but it's not hard to see the training lapses that the dogs suffer from by just watching the video, i.e., mostly forearm bites.

The owner insisted that his dogs strong points are their obedience and upon reviewing the tapes I will say that not every dog sat crookedly, like I may have said previously - my apologies if I said that.
But I did notice that:

The rottie on the long recall had a crooked sit on it's finish

The black dog had a crooked plotz

The black GSD had a nice recall ( but *all* the dogs were given a "sit" command before getting to the handler from the recall - why add an additional command? )

Actually, looking at the obedience, *all* the dogs receive a voice and a hand command, along with a large amount of body english/help for common exercises like the "fuss" etc. That certainly doesn't make their obedience "unbelievable" to anyone with an experienced eye. It didn't look like any of their dogs would pass a BH ( due to the amount of points lost due to double commands ).

The owner did tell me that he doesn't compete in SchH so I understand that he may just not have any interest in precision obedience, but triple commands to get most obedience exercises done is pretty weak from a professional standpoint, I'd think.


Again, my apologies to the kennel onwer if he feels that we're bashing his kennel, our comments are only about what we see in the video. And what many of us see in the video are at odds to what is being said in the vidoe.

Ultimately, only the buyer can decide.

very well said will!

Lorenzo! Clean out your PM box, I have a funny email to send ya!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Go ahead send it Will! I could use the laughter I'm sure <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Quote:The owner assured me that many decoys and helpers have been bruised by his dogs during training ( I can't see where the intensity of the bites would cause this, so I'll assume that's due to equipment failure)

You left out that hanging half off a fence like that can leave bruises when the dogs weight is suddenly added.

I thought the black GSD on the indoor scenario was going to "sit pretty" instead of bite. JUNK <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Bill, I'm coming in several posts after the fact, but I was kind of kidding. I have absolutely no interest in doing schutzhund with my dog. He is NOT a sport dog. He won't be winning any points with the judges <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, if you know what I mean. He likes to kill animals, so I can't say he lacks prey drive, but some moron shaking a tug in his face <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />? A tug, as in play a game? As in FUN with a STRANGER? Mr. Serious who never wags his tail in public? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />If a dog can look like a snob, he does in this scenario...absolutely will pay no attention to any outside people (males) unless they're doing something he doesn't like. Then, his favorite thing is to wait for you to cross some invisible line, either on the property, in the car, or in his head <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, and then startle the hell out of you. He's just darling. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Regarding the rest of it: WOW. How insecure does someone need to be (and how much free time must they have) to call everyone who they find out expressed an OPINION? The guy is in BUSINESS. Guess what? Businesses get reviews. He needs to relax...sounds like a classic case of overcompensation <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> to me. I didn't see anything I'd deem bashing-critiquing and analyzing, yes. Besides, there were postive reviews as well. He should be flattered that anyone bothered to talk about him at all. You know what they say-all publicity is good publicity! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Or at least that's what I tell myself when people talk about *me* <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

I reread Bill's post and want to clarify something. My dog will do anything with ME. He pulls me all over the house with tug (we happen to be approximately the same size <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />; he just won't play "games" with anyone else. I made him sound angry and aloof even toward the handler, which is not the case at all. I'd still be interested in your suggestions; I may PM you, as I like to hear very different opinions on ways to train.

Sorry, we can go back to the Incredible Hulk story now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Its not all about you Jenni!

There is NOT A SINGLE thing in that video that I would fault.

The video is well put together; there are different breeds participating; all participants are at around the same level; all are apparently social dogs; their obedience is well motivated across the board; the bites are good, as are the entries and the commitment.

Are the dogs in prey? Not an important question. A better question would be, How do these dogs react to an unfamiliar decoy, while on a muzzle, in a strange place? You can't determine that from the video. The video tries to portray "real world" applicability for the dogs, and perhaps they have it. There is no way of telling either way.

There is no question that the trainer(s) in the video know what they are doing. The training and the dogs are far better than most. I freely admit that I am partial to social dogs. Are they the absolute best in the world? No. But so what? Are they way better than average? Yes. IMO.

It is not wise to own a dog that has a low bite threshold, for the average family, and PPD's SHOULD be for the average family. They are first and foremost, a deterrent; secondly, an early warning system; and waaaay in last place, an offensive weapon. If your PPD is not controllable and stable, you'll be putting him away every time your pizza gets delivered. Not smart. You'll be putting him away everytime your kid invites friends to play in your back yard. You'll be putting him away when the plummer, cable guy, etc. needs to work in your house. Not smart.

If the dog sits crooked, or whatever...is, to me...completely unimportant, unless you're in some fancy competition with a bunch of egos on the field.

One final point: videos are edited. All of us that film dogs, or anything else, edit. We can be reasonably certain that the video material was selected because it represented what the owner wanted to portray. And there's nothing wrong with that.

It would be cool to have more videos of those of us that train dogs on the board. I know that in my case, and at this stage of the game, my dog hates outing. It would not look pretty on video...but it's real...and it would not mean that I am a lousy trainer, or that my dog is poor...but it might.