What if being ticketed came with a hefty fine? Or failure to licence a dog resulted in a heavy fine and removal/rehoming of that dog? If we were allowed to rewrite the laws, what would the new laws look like? It's something to consider. Dissatifaction with the current laws is understandable; they are unfair and inadequate and go unenforced unless there is trouble on a newsworthy scale. But what if we proposed new laws to take their place?
I've been trying like crazy to drum up some interest on this topic locally, but it's felt like walking through wet cement. Nobody seems to care unless something horrible happens, and then they blame the dog. It's infuriating.
Recently, there was a dog and his owner that were attacked by four unlicensed pitts across the lake in New York. The owners of the pitts got off with paying the guy's vet bills. There was some talk of dissapointment around a breed-ban being illegal(?!). This was the only solution they could see for the problem! I was asked my opinion, but of course it didn't get published because it didn't support the idea of a breed-ban, but suggested enforcement of laws ALREADY ON THE BOOKS. Not the popular opinion around here, I guess. It would seem that there needs to be a way to get the attention and support of "Joe dog-owner" since the responsible folks already 'get it'. It's a challenge I haven't found a solution to yet.

 Quote: kristel smart

What if being ticketed came with a hefty fine? Or failure to licence a dog resulted in a heavy fine and removal/rehoming of that dog? If we were allowed to rewrite the laws, what would the new laws look like? It's something to consider. Dissatifaction with the current laws is understandable; they are unfair and inadequate and go unenforced unless there is trouble on a newsworthy scale. But what if we proposed new laws to take their place? .... It would seem that there needs to be a way to get the attention and support of "Joe dog-owner" since the responsible folks already 'get it'. It's a challenge I haven't found a solution to yet.

Here's a way:

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=142935&Searchpage=1&Main=15173&Words=Will+Rambeau&topic=0&Search=true#Post142935

Thanks, Connie . I actually DID join them for awhile. Unfortunately what it ended up boiling down to was people calling at all hours of the night, using (unfounded) dog-related complaints to get back at their neighbors for dumping leaves on their lawn, etc. The laws had no teeth, law enforcement was uninterested, and I ended up ticketing the same people over and over again for not adhering to the leash law, for which there was no consequence. More often than not I was greeted with "what's the problem? we're in the country, aint we?" I also ended up a taxi for loose dogs on their way to the holding kennel, ultimately resulting in a need for a new car. For $50, dogs were returned to their owners to get loose again. It was frustrating, to say the least. My hope was to get the opportunity to change things, but it was an unsupported mission. Recently, I sent an e-mail to thirty or so of my dog-friends, all of whom think of the dog laws are inadequate and have had problems with loose dogs, in the hopes that if enough people complained, something would be done. THREE people responded. As I've run into the other folks they were very interested and hopeful about progress in this regard, but still showed no willingness to get involved. I'm not used to feeling this ineffective; it's frustrating. I'll still keep pluggin' though.

 Quote: kristel smart

If we were allowed to rewrite the laws, what would the new laws look like? It's something to consider. Dissatifaction with the current laws is understandable; they are unfair and inadequate and go unenforced unless there is trouble on a newsworthy scale. But what if we proposed new laws to take their place?

It's difficult to come up with blanket consequences, because obviously the punishment would have to would have to fit the particular situation.

But here's a grab bag of potential consequences which could be picked from, depending on the circumstances: Moderate to massive fines, loss of ownership of the dog, loss of future ownership of any dog or employment that involves dogs, community service, probation, and finally and ESPECIALLY, jail time for people who have had prior incidents with their dogs escaping and causing actual physical harm.

If someone's dog attacks and harms a child, and then the owner didn't take proper precautions and it happened AGAIN?! I'm sorry, I have very little sympathy. If my dog ever had an unprovoked attack on ANYONE, be it animal or human...you best believe I would be taking some serious action to make damn sure it never happened again. MY dog. MY responsibility.

These particular incidents with dog attacks are those that can be enforced, and the consequences should become rapidly more and more severe.

Bottom line for me: I think it should be considered a criminal offense if your dog "escapes" and attacks someone more than once.

An accident can happen once to anyone. Even the best owner can have a situation that they never expected or anticipated or make a mistake in judgement about the temperament of their dog. I'd like to think that I'm cautious enough and that I pay enough attention that these situations would never ever happen to me, but can I swear on my soul that there is NO way it could EVER happen? No. Even my best friends and family members occasionally do things that shock me, so how could I possibly swear to what a different species will do, however well I think I know him?

However, if it happens twice, the accident excuse rapidly loses credibility with me. Clearly, a second "accident" means that a very important lesson was not learned the first time.


The other important aspect of the owners being punished, especially if it is a criminal offense, is that it will put the spotlight where it belongs--on the owners and not a certain breed of dog.

Yes, yes and a thousand times YES!!

Now, if only your sensible way of thinking can become a reality.

The complacency of so many dog owners that Kristel spoke of is the hardest to deal with. I see it almost everyday in my neighborhood, with loose dogs running around. I feel sorry for the dogs. They are the same dogs over and over, day after day. Excuses like "he digs under the gate" to get loose don't have my sympathy. Fix the problem - and it's not just putting a brick there.

Yesterday I was faced with the complacency of neighbors toward their children. I ALMOST hit a little boy, 3 or 4 years old, who rode his tiny bike out into the street from behind a truck parked on the curb. Fortunately I always go slow in my neighborhood and in this instance was going no more than 10 mph, just having made a turn. It was inches from tragedy - it wouldn't have made a difference if I was going 10 mph or 50 mph as far as the child getting killed, that's how close it was.

I stopped, knocked on the door, no parents out front with the kids. The mother, complacent, a tiny scolding of the kid. I wanted to show her exactly what and where it happened. She called her husband, I waited for him to come out. Finally he came out and apologized to me. At that point I figured he just didn't get it, although I tried to give a visual with words of his little boy being crushed under my SUV, I could tell it wasn't sinking in. He gave some excuse of how his kids don't always mind him and go out front without permission and without him, and he happened to be in the back yard. Good Lord........so I said "what about your wife, their mother? She should have been out there with them." Still the guy refused to be alarmed. There was absolutely NO alarm that his little boy almost died that day. I was completely flabbergasted, unbelieving.

With that kind of attitude toward a child, your own child, what is to be expected with their dogs? It's mostly a matter of educating the public, but if the horror stories on TV of kidnappings, murders of children, dogs attacking kids, kids getting run over, isn't enough to educate, what is? Some people just flat out are stupid beyond words, common sense not being a gift they were born with.

I can't stand that complacency. It gets people hurt.

One of my neighbors in particular lets her dogs run all over the place, one was hit *twice* by cars (and killed the second time) and she still lets her other dogs run.

Her complacency extends to leaving her pasture gate open with her mare. The excuse she gives is "My horse was raised here and knows to stay in the yard." Then why does your horse come over to my place a couple times a year? This is a crazy, dangerous horse as well (she will charge you and has kicked her owners badly without provocation)- not some plodder (I like plodders, I have two). One day she is going to be running up my street while some maniac is driving down it- that won't be pretty.

As a tail any idea on how to get this under control? We live outside city limits so I am not sure animal control will come out to our place. I generally run the dogs off our property, but they keep coming back. I have considered taking them to the shelter to make a point, but I really don't want to burden the shelter with the problem- and the county shelter is a pretty long drive. Tried talking to the neighbor, she doesn't get it.

Leah, if animal control doesn't come out, the Sheriff's dept might think it's important enough to come out and have a talk with the owner. They have jurisdiction. As far as a loose horse, I think they'd definitely be interested in that. If he gets on the street, someone could be killed or maimed trying to avoid him. Same thing with loose dogs. Perhaps you could express that concern when you call.

I saw a horse right after it had been hit by a car, laying on a busy boulevard that the boarding stable was next to. It was heart wrenching. People go faster than the speed limit on that street. It was a terrible hit, the car was demolished in such a way that it was evident they were speeding (have to admit I was happy the car was totaled, it's the least they could have suffered).

 Quote: leah christian

As a tail any idea on how to get this under control? We live outside city limits so I am not sure animal control will come out to our place.

I had a similar problem with a neighbor's dogs a few years ago when I was living in a newly built townhouse complex. This woman had two large mix breeds that would come over to our complex almost daily.

Now these dogs were friendly to adults and children when they came over. However, they used our lawns as latrines, were VERY aggressive to our complex's cats and there was a little boy who was terrified of dogs...he would be out playing, see them and run like hell home, a look of pure panic on his face that was heartbreaking to see, the dogs hot on his heels, thinking it was a game. The boy was 7 years old.

I tried explaining to him that he should not run, but in the face of his terror of dogs, that wasn't something a scared 7 year old could overcome.

The dogs had tags so I called the owner (a lawyer, incidentally). I tried explaining to her what the situation was with her dogs and her response was that the dogs were friendly and that they were used to roaming in our neighborhood beacause before the complex was built, there were no neighbors to worry about. Okay, well, that was then, this is now...come get your dogs and please keep them contained.

Well, suffice it to say that she didn't. After my second call to her, I called the animal control officer who came over and ticketed the woman. Still didn't help. Tried another time. Still didn't stop the woman from letting her dogs roam our neighborhood. I called her and told her that from now on, I would be taking the dogs to the a shelter when I caught them, and with every time I had to do that, I would take them to a shelter further away.

I did take them to the local shelter because the woman still wouldn't listen. They called her, she had to come and get her dogs and had to pay money to get them out.

It happend yet AGAIN, so this time I drove the dogs to the Boston shelter...a good 4 hour round trip drive. THAT worked, finally. She actually came to my house after that episode, pretty angry, and I told her, "Gee, I'm sorry...is your dogs being loose becoming an inconvienience to you? That's too bad. Maybe you should keep them contained? Just a thought." Never had another problem with them...she installed an invisible fence for them.

She saw my response as being drastic. What I think is that it is insane for a little boy to have to be terrified of going outside into his own yard. I think it's irritating that I have to worry about my cat being eaten by her dogs. I can't stand that I had to clean up after her dogs every day or else all of the tenants would loose their right to own dogs (as per the lease).

There was a law that her dog shouldn't be loose. The law had no teeth so it might as well have not existed. However, there is no law against me taking her dogs to a shelter in Boston, either. Creative solutions to problems are the only things that work in these situations.

To tie this situation into the thread...unless the owner has very unpleasant consequences, nothing will change.

 Quote: Amber Morgan

However, there is no law against me taking her dogs to a shelter in Boston, either. Creative solutions to problems are the only things that work in these situations.

Amber, you're pretty awesome - you know that right?!

~Natalya