Quote: louanne manter

If my pup "sounds an alarm" (Serious Barking or a Growl), I pay attention. I acknowledge that he has done so, check out whatever is distressing him, and then tell him it is okay.

You need to be very careful when giving this suggestion. If a dog has a fear or aggression problem you are rewarding the dog for acting fearful or aggressive. Especially with a fearful dog. Telling the dog it's O.K. in a nice tone means "it's O.K. that I acted fearful" to the dog. Ignoring fearful behavior and correcting unwarranted aggression is normally the rule.

Thanks Louanne.

My concern is - okay, there was another shooting nearby a few days ago (close to one of the dog walking routes, ergh), but it's not that so much that prompted this as the guy in the mask - that really terrified me. If I was going to do any training, I'd want to be able to command Teagan to be a physical block between me and any scary person like that - but so I do that, and she has no other training - what happens if that person isn't threatened by her? Attacks her or hurts her? Or that she feels highly pressured and isn't as even-kelled as I hope and goes off unnecessarily? Or turns and runs?

My ethical concern is that I'm not sure it's fair to expect my dog to be a physical barrier without full and complete protection training.

In terms of her alerting to something unusually - she is very observant, and luc does tend to growl if there is something unusual going on that is different (like a car pulling into a driveway late at night) - but i correct him for that as to be honest, i don't see that as appropriate timing to growl and i don't want him displaying the behaviour - there's no threat, i've always seen that as he's just not confident and reacts b/c he is uncertain, and it's up to me to make it clear to him that reaction is unnecessary. I guess - I don't want my dogs alerting (maybe this is all wrong from a PPD standpoint) to random things happening on the street like cars, if I did train my dog to be guarding/protective, I would expect it to act on direction from me.

john and i posted at the same time....but what he said - when luc does it i think it's a matter of underexposure/lack of confidence, not that he's actually doing a good job of identifying a threat.

Thanks for your comment, it is much appreciated. You are right that what I may consider okay, may be very bad for another person and their dog in a different situation.

I spoke about my pup from my bias and what I know about my neighborhood and the city that I live in.

First of all I find it interesting, that he takes note not only of the variety of smells on our walks that we take (and no we do not walk the same route every time), but that he does take note of people, cars and objects.

Since we take a lot of walks after sunset, if he growls at a "suspicious" vehicle, I'm going to take note. I'm not a fearful person, but I do believe in awareness & caution.

If he growls at where I've placed bags of garbage for collection day, then I'm going to intentionally change the location of placement, and whether or not I use the garbage cans each week.

Most of the time, my pup is a friendly, outgoing & curious pup. The only fear that I believe that he has shown is when another DOG barks at him in a SERIOUS TONE, and then he tries to FLEE the situation or get behind me.

Inside our home, he has barked at Strange Vehicles parked in front of our house, Squirrles outside the Windows, Cats walking by, and who knows what else. My point is INSIDE MY HOME I am going to pay attention and check out whatever is causing him to Bark. I believe that Animals are much more instictive than us, and it warrants investigation.

So after he has "Raised the Alarm" and I've checked it out, how would you signal to him: "Thank you for your Alert, I've checked it Out, and All is Clear!"? Which is my intent by telling him it is "ok".

He has never continued barking after I've investigated it with or without him and told him "ok".

Thanks again for your comments and feedback!

 Quote: louanne manter

Usually what is distressing him is a small animal somewhere near our house (cat, squirrel, skunk, raccoon, et cetera). However, more importantly, Sometimes it is something that is "out of place" to him. A car parked where there is usually NONE; Trash Bags put out in unusual places from previous trash collection days; An unfamiliar person coming to our door. I didn't train him to be this way.

When you say distress, is your dog nervous or afraid of these things? IMO Encouraging a dog to be nervous about strange things is not a good idea. Teaching a dog to bark when it notices something unusual does not mean your dog will stand when faced with a serious intruder.

I want a confident dog that is NOT afraid of things, a confident dog is a dog that is more likely to stand and face a challenge or unusual situation (I.E. creepy men in masks in a park..)

John is right - don't praise or comfort a dog that is showing nervous/fearful behavior, you are only reinforcing the fearfulness, you are telling the dog that there is something to fear or be nervous about.

A naturally nervous dog may bark at someone they do not know, but it doesn't mean they will stand and face that person if they advance on you. Quite the contrary, likely the dog will retreat. Quickly. Others may display aggression, but fear biting is never ever something to encourage.

A naturally dominant, confidant dog like Teagan may not bark because there is nothing that concerns her enough to feel threatened and give off a warning. But even a dog that is confidant, it is unfair to expect them to really stand up to a serious threat without being trained to do so.

You can teach a dog to look around for people when you say a certain command by marking the behavior of being alert towards someone with whatever command you choose - I used "Who's That?" in a whisper to signal Cajun to look around at the people closest to us. Generally there was only one person, or maybe two, BUT he was also being PPD trained. He was/is a very confidant dog, being naturally courageous and dominant, reinforced by possitive experiences and "winning" in confrontations during training.

For the average joe dog, encouraging AGGRESSION is something I would not do, but I would encourage alertness on command. I would not encourage Teagan to display aggression such as barking or growling at people, but I would not see the harm in teaching her to become alert to someone and look at them when given a command to do so. It will be a game to the dog, they get praised when they look at someone, it will not be a red flag to "be on guard, danger is near!"

As far as the physical barrier part.. move Teagan to that side. A dog should walk at heel no matter the side it is on, but you may need to work on her with it. A lot of trainers only have a dog heel to the left, I actually have my dogs heel to the right, but they will go to and stay at whatever side I tell them to.

What dog to teach this to depends on the dog, but as previously mentioned in this thread anyone with two alert GSDs is going to be a much much less attractive "victim" to a bad guy. Pepper spray is a grand thing, so is a cell phone.

Even with a PPD, to me, the dog is the LAST resort if someone seriously wants to push the issue. I would much rather spray a criminal with mace and have the cops take him away than have my dog engage him. Having a PPD is peace of mind that should things indeed get too serious, I have a dog that is in fact trained for this type of situation and WILL engage. Just MHO.

Sorry Louanne - I got distracted and had to leave the computer for over half an hour while typing that, didn't see your post until afterwards.

What is instinctive to a dog depends on that dog's temperament. A dog that is born nervous is going to have the instinct in him to be on high alert and to think all manner of things are a threat or something to be concerned about.

A dog that is born with strong/hard nerves and courage (that is developed into confidance as the dog ages) has instincts telling him that there is little to be "worried" about, even if there is something that requires attention.

A nervous dog may think all strangers are "bad" and worth attention. A confidant dog may watch and pay attention to all strangers but not be concerned by any of them.

A threat to one dog is not a threat to all others - what is a TRUE threat must be judged by the handler/owner. One dog may find a trash can to be worrisome - the owner knows that a trash can is not going to mug them or beat them up in a dark alley. A dog may find tall men dressed in dark clothing to be a threat, but it may just be the owners long lost cousin Earl.

well, it's b/c of teagan's confidence that i thought she might be potentially good at some of this stuff - and it's b/c luc is not confident that i'd never consider him. he is the dog that will bark/growl at cars in unusual places.

jennifer - that's a good idea about moving the dogs (teagan in particular) around on the heel. right now teagan gets the left and luc the right if they're out together, but there's no reason why they can't both be ambidextrous (so to speak).

a watch command as a game is a good idea - b/c you're right, i don't think it would promote aggression - hopefully not. it was great that teagan (and luc, he did well, though was possibly copying teagan) did run at the guy in the mask, but i wish i could have communicated to them to do it sooner - a watch command could mean i could control her alertness.

what i'd be worried about is that she wouldn't be trained and then she'd react aggressively in a moment of nerves and then i've got a dog attack issue, and i'm the one who let her down by putting her in a situation she wasn't prepared for, and she suffers the consequences.

to be honest, i don't want to teach her to bark. this might be a bad thing for someone w/two dogs to say, but i HATE barking. growling doesn't bother me from a noise perspective, but i can see what you're saying about aggression being an issue in an untrained dog and why growling is not a good idea to train.

I do not think the watch game would evolve into an attack situation, IMO - you are only wanting her to look at someone. If during the process of teaching her this you notice a tendency for her to become too zoned in on someone and acting in an aggressive fashion you can correct this, but that may also be your indicator that you should not continue with encouraging her alertness.

From what I have read from you in other posts Teagan sounds like a very alert dog anyway. If the point is to get her to pay attention if she becomes absorbed in the scent of something or is "daydreaming" a command to make her look around may cause her to pay attention to the people around her without promoting aggression.

One way to teach a possitive "whats that?" is set up situations where when you say this, someone nearby tosses a favorite toy to her. Can be strangers or people she knows. Condition her to become alert and look around (for her toy tossing friend) when you say whatever command you choose. This prevents the command being associated with negativity, fear, etc. This way all she is doing is looking around and with her normal body language of a dominant, confidant dog, someone may not know she is looking for a toy, and not staring them down.

P.S. I taught Cajun to growl and bark on command, but the purpose was for entertainment only, he was not taught to growl and bark on direct command at someone else, only for a reward of toy or affection from me.

thanks jennifer.

i just spoke to the president of one of the local SchH clubs....he said i could come out the field and he'll take a look at teagan and offer advise, or he could recommend me to a school his friend runs....

....which is the school i was going to. i told him that, but it appears the toronto SchH world is small. to be fair, it wasn't the owner i had the issue with, but one of his helpers, but the owner is still running a school telling ppl that. anyways, hopefully i don't see that helper at the SchH field since i know she does practice the sport....that would be awkward!

but if i can get the car i will go out sunday w/teagan. he asked if i was interested in the sport, and i said that i don't think luc would be any good at it and i'm not 100% sure w/teagan - she seems to have prey drive - but i'm a really novice handler. anyways, we shall see what they think of teagan on sunday (hopefully car allowing!) and her behaviours. i wonder if she'll be as dominant/aggressive with a bunch of SchH dogs....the SchH dogs i've seen are pretty confident, i don't think we've ever met a dog with that confidence level.