I don't disagree w/crating. That's not the point I was trying to make. My point is that I think it's very easy for city apartment dwellers to over-crate. I think a lot of people have a hard time finding/making the time to exercise their dogs hard enough to create sufficient tiredness. And soon the couple's attention will be even more divided.

This dog has gone from living in a yard, doing all the obedience classes Petsmart in less than a year (which is a lot of stimulation & social time) & compulsively digging (too much energy or too much stress?), to living in an apartment, no more classes, light, very controlled exercise, tail-chasing & biting. With a baby on the way & probably less attention.

I made the assumption that the wife stays at home, but if she has a full time job, then is the dog crated when no one is home?

I think the bike riding is a useful idea. Finding a space where the dog can flat out run for the ball (tho' if I remember right, the tail is becoming more interesting?). How do you get a very energetic young dog tired in a short amount of time? Considering full time job, commute, & other responsibilities of life, how to get to Tired--say in 30 min. 2x a day--so that crating is not adding to the problem.

Getting up earlier is good, but pretty soon baby is going to be keeping these folks awake. So add that into the equation, because I don't think the re-training is going to be so set in 4 months that they'll be able to slack off on much.

We really don't know enough about the set-up, the quality of the relationship, the triggers (does the dog only chase its tail when the owners are around?), the amount of time the owners can sustainably give to the dog to wear it out. From what's been said, I can't tell if it's from lack of stimulation or over-stimulation. From being high strung to being mis-diagnosed.

Am I making myself any clearer here?

Hi Joseph, welcome.

Sounds like a pretty challenging situation you've got happening. I'm no expert, just a long time dog owner with some thoughts to share about your situation.

 Quote: Joseph Montalvo

She bit my wife 3 times already for no reason.

Has she ever bitten you?

 Quote: Joseph Montalvo

I currently walk her 2 times daily and play catch with her for 40 minutes in the mornings.

The walks sounds good, but short. 2 ½ blocks to the park? That takes what, about 3 minutes? And the 40 minutes of ball playing in the morning.

I've got a pretty high drive shepherd and 40 minutes of simply tossing a ball first thing in the morning would just wind him up. We do play ball, a few long throws but a lot of obedience is mixed in with it. I could throw the ball for him all day and I'm sure he'd just keep mindlessly chasing it. Making him slow down and think about what's gonna make it fly, responding correctly to commands, seems to drain a lot more energy.

I would probably cut the ball game down to about 20 minutes and use the other 20 minutes for a brisk, structured walk (with a back pack and a bunch of weight). Maybe there's a bit longer route you could take to the park. Once there, maybe take the pack off for a few commands and ball tosses, but I wouldn't let her wander around aimlessly. Her job is to be working with you. A nice structured walk home and leave a calm pup instead of a wound up one.

 Quote: Joseph Montalvo

Normally when she is calm she lets us pet her and give her puppy love by tickling her tummy and stuff. My wife came up to her and sat next to her and started petting her for about 3 minutes

Maybe this is just me but I can't imagine giving any of my dogs a three minute tummy tickle. I've sat down with them for hours, maybe a limb touching and the odd belly rub here and there but I don't think I've ever petted one for a straight 3 minutes. Is she talking to her at the same time? It sounds like this would be incredibly stimulating for the pup.

 Quote: Joseph Montalvo

When my wife stood up, at that moment our GSD just had a mood change and bit 3 fingers from her right hand and didnt let go until my wife started to scream and cry.

I have a rescue shepherd that will also bite quickly like this - under much, much different circumstances, but an instantaneous attack none the less. I do know exactly what triggers him though, how to avoid it and he's coming along nicely with work we've been doing on decreasing the triggers. It's a fear he associates to a specific approach and a "do unto others before they do unto him" type thing. He has an extremely low tolerance to humans other than myself and a couple others.

 Quote: Joseph Montalvo

We are wondering if its possible that when my wife stood up and raised one of her hands she took it the wrong way. But we are not sure.

I believe you are correct here. On top of the 3 minutes of the petting stimulation, has she ever been corrected for acting out after something like this before? Pet, pet, pet and maybe she got a bit mouthy or paws flying around in excitement and a correction followed? Has your wife ever corrected her after petting her for any reason?

When she's calm and being good, this is a good time for the human to be rewarded for the great job they did getting her there. (In your wife's condition, perhaps some peanut butter on pickles. )

Many people feel that petting is a reward to a dog and in a lot of cases it is. In some dogs though, it's not. It's more of an opportunity that people tend to take advantage of to meet their own furry, fluff ball, nurturing needs. She's calm - good opportunity for me show her what a loving and kind person I am. Unfortunately, the relaxed dog now is exposed to an exited human and that just starts the whole cycle of "behavior" all over again. There's a lot to be said for "Let sleeping dogs lie".

If your wife feels she needs to pet her, I would look at reducing the duration substantially. You can always work up to longer cuddling sessions. I would be paying close attention to the departure or time when she is ending the petting session. It almost sounds like you have an opposite problem to the one I'm dealing with. Mine has a problem with the approach. I would be very conscious of where my hands are and the smallest movement that may be causing a change in her body language, what seems to be triggering it. Once you get this figured out, desensitization exercises can do amazing things.

 Quote: Joseph Montalvo

Most of her problems are when she is at home during the day, or when we are in the car driving to the store.

I would be paying close attention to these. Even documenting them. Accurate, documented accounts will be extremely helpful for a behaviorist should you choose to take that route. At what point does it start – when you shut the door, when the indicator light is turning left, when you pull into the store parking lot. Does she turn and chase a specific way, is it more intense at different times.

 Quote: Joseph Montalvo

Is her aggressive behavior fixable?

I believe it is but I’m also an eternal optimist, sort of.

However, very little that's worthwhile comes easy. Your dog is out of control and IMHO, bordering on really messed up. Something got her here and I don’t think it happened overnight. You guys need to be really honest and open to what you need to hear and the work involved in turning this around. It sounds like you’re up to it or you wouldn’t be here.

In my calculations you have about 3 months before the baby is due to arrive. I would be using every minute of spare time to get this turned around. Triple the exercise and mental stimulation if possible, don’t give her a chance to chase that tail and as Anne has stated, control every movement.

A bit of work needed, but I'll bet your girl is well worth the effort.

ETA: Can I ask what you're feeding her?

I am so glad you posted CJ! I had typed a post to Joseph and my flippin connection dropped!

Joseph, the people on here have been invaluable to me over the last couple of years, their support, advice and friendship have been voices of calm and reason when things got dark and upsetting, the old guard here are a great bunch of people, very passionate about dogs, and always honest and fair, so stick with these guys, you won't regret it!

As far as crating goes, I wouldn't be worried at all about using it; they are life savers when things get fraught, and so long as your girl is good and tired when she goes into it, it is a happy haven for her to have some peace and quiet - mine are crated when I am at work, and they don't have any problem with going to them, they are a den to sleep in and are their own place to chill, so don't beat yourself up for using it, crates are not the devil incarnate!

Keep the faith with the long term members here, they are a good bunch of people

Best regards
Tracey

I couldn't agree more about crates Tracey. I didn't go there because Anne's and Connie's concise recap of Anne's excellent post pretty much expressed my exact thoughts about the use of them.

Crates are an excellent tool for controlling and monitoring movement in conjuction with behavior issues - when used correctly.

I just want to wish you all the best with tackling this issue with your dog Joseph.

As I read through all the posts, both yours and all the wonderful responses, I see not only how complex the issue is, (i.e. it is not only an issue of aggression but possibly also OCD, and possibly now other mental disorder(s)) but also how many environmental aspects that have potentially played into it, i.e. change in living arrangements, change in training routine, changes in both your and your wife's relationship with your dog that must inevitably happened as this situation worsened, and the very subtle changes in both your and your wife's relationship with the dog during her pregnancy. I am quite certain that since your dog is clearly highly intelligent, it is picking up on the all the changes that are happening around it from changes in daily routines, to behavioural changes, such as mood changes. I know that when I was pregnant I had many "mood swings"! (mention is made to the dogs mood changes but are these a reflection of the owners' mood changes?). While having a first baby is a very joyous occasion it does have its very stressful moments! I would not underestimate the degree to which all these environmental changes are influencing the dog.

I am so glad that you have now got the right kind of advice and support from this forum and are planing to seek professional advice from a behaviourist.

I am also glad that you wrote into the forum for help. This thread has really highlighted the many parameters that as dog owners we have to consider in raising our young dogs! It has been helpful for us all to reflect on the fine balance between the physical and mental well being of our dogs. As a Dal owner, I consider it a privilege to be a canine companion. I find that now I spend as much time in thinking about how best to raise my Dal as I did when raising my children!





Edited by Lisabet Measures (11/25/2011 07:37 AM)
Edit reason: typo

Jane,

Prior to starting this blog, she was lose all day, of course with someone in the house. She was crated at night. Now that I have been reading excellent tips that i was not aware i have used the crate more and have been more strict, especially when i am not able to pay attention. You do have a good point, possibly the move did affect something.

Jane,

Yes i am a 8 to 5 american worker. My wife stays home. before joining this blog we did scream @ her but not in a bad way in a way were we tried to correct her. Our PetSmart trainer recomended that we tie the dog to the door if she mis behaved and thats what we did many of the times, but she ended eating up the edges of our walls.

Jane,

I have been told numerouse times not to use a muzzle because it make the dog more agresive.

Thank you Sheila, i will defenetly look into the behaviorist.

Thanks,

 Quote: Joseph Montalvo

Jane,

Our PetSmart trainer recomended that we tie the dog to the door if she mis behaved and thats what we did many of the times, but she ended eating up the edges of our walls.

Sorry, but it is just that kind of stupid advise that would prevent me from ever recomending pet store training to anyone. I would recomend running far & fast away from any of that kind of trianing. It is cost effective, in the long run, to find a private trainer to work with.

I have seen many of the Petsmart & Petco trainers in action & have been sickened by their intructions to pet owners.

One being so nasty & constantly correcting a 4 mo old pup that had no idea what was going on & ended up cowering & submissive peeing by the time the guy was done. I met this pup on his way into the store & he was a very sweet NORMAL pup. Not the case when the 'expert' store dog training got thru with him. GRRRRRRRR!!!! Very sad.

Joe in all honesty, you need to get one on one help with these dog issues.

Yelling at the dog (your anger & frustration & not training) poor info from both vet & store trianers have landed you where you are with this dog. You need help immediately. The longer that this 'stuff' goes on...the harder it will be to fix.

BTW ....muzzling a dog (with properly training a dog to wear one) will not make a dog aggressive.

You are so far out of your knowledge & comfort zone with all this...it is not going to end well if not turned around immediately. I applaud your efforts in reaching out for help..the right thing to do... but very difficult to help with on the internet. We can skim over things & give information...but some is a trial & error appraoch to seeing what works, how much, & if things need tweeking or if you need to think further outside the box to find what does work. None of which we can do from a computer. You really need one on one with someone that knows what they are doing to help you in your home...both you & your wife & dog all working together.

See if there is a Schutzhund club or ring sport club in your area & see if there is someone in the club that you can speak with & if they might recomend a trainer.

Good luck to you all..what you have on your side is that the dog is only a year old. So you have time to fix it all with alot of hard work & consistancy You CAN DO IT..with the right help.

Good luck to you.