So would like to update everyone on our visit to the Derm Vet.
I had the scratch test done and it shows that he is allergic to just about everything in Florida. Cedar, Cypress, citrus, many more trees, grasses, fleas and ticks. He also has some infection and yeast problems.
They did not test for food allergies at this point.
She put him on Simplicef 2 - 200 mg x 2 times a day and 2 Atopia 100 mg x 2 times a day. Both for a month.
No change in diet yet except no raw food till his immune system is built back up.
Also Couxo Chlorhex PS wipes 3 times a week x 1 day for his inflammed paws.
Also bath every other week and Advantagtix twice a month.
Any ideas on some other way to go for the flea problem other than twice a month Advantagtix.
I know drugs are really needed to clear all this up but I know I have to get him off this stuff asap or it will probably kill him eventually.
After a month, probably allergy shots. A lot of what I have read about allergies treated in this way say only about 30 % chance of helping. What is your opinion. ?
In the mean time I'm going to go to a Holistic vet and start some herbs and natural treatments.
When we start the elimination diet not sure what I'm going to do as my guy weights 105 lbs. The cheapest meat sources I can find that he hasn't been on that is grain free cost around 7.00 a lb. So we're talking 14.00 a day to feed him. I sure hope someone has some suggestions on that problem.
I was thinking maybe starting with organic chicken and nothing else if I can find it. We have been giving him chicken and ground beef from wal mart.
Help.
(He is getting Salmon oil and vit e and bone meal since we have to cook his chicken for the time being.
We are wiping him off everytime we take him out.
Sorry this is so long but I appreciate all this help.

What were the strongest reactions and how avoidable are they?

A huge part of the intradermal test for me was always identifying the worst of the allergies and sitting down and figuring out when they are in bloom, what time of day the pollen is worst, when the breeze kicks up in your area, etc., etc. Keeping the allergen away from the dog is the number one goal.

The shots (imunotherapy) are not always hugely successful, and they take time. So far they have been well worth it when I went that route, but ONLY in conjunction with the mechanical methods of keeping the allergens away from the dog.

These include being inside with windows closed at the high-pollen times, never letting the dog's fur take allergens into his living space, so always doing a thorough damp-wipe (especially undercarriage) on the way in (NOT inside.... at the doorway) and discarding -- inside something else in the trash -- or getting into the washing machine whatever the wiper is, walking the dog through a pan of always-fresh water on the way back indoors and careful pat-dry of paws that are otherwise loaded with allergens from being outside, very frequent rinsing and bathing, even just standing him in the tub and pouring fresh water over to remove allergens, undercarriage as well as top, very frequent vacuuming and taking the bag, if it has one, outside immediately, very frequent laundering of his blanket, etc., etc. ..... if we didn't cover this and more here in this thread, I will find another thread a bit later.

Do you have a HEPA vacuum cleaner?

Is he on probiotics?

How much salmon oil? How much E?

The derm vet has scheduled an elimination diet? Or you are just thinking ahead at this point? Does the derm vet suspect food allergies?

"The cheapest meat sources I can find that he hasn't been on that is grain free cost around 7.00 a lb." Like what? I'm unclear about whether you mean meat or kibble.

I can come back to this later. Believe me, you have a very sympathetic responder here. There are very few canine conditions as frustrating or miserable as atopy.

I do want to emphasize the fact that most effective, to the extent that it's doable, goal is to reduce the dog's exposure to the worst of his allergens. This takes some research and planning, but it's so primary among the various tools that it should never be skipped.

I'm glad you got some info. The intradermal info can help a lot.


PS

Do you know the amount of calcium to add to the cooked chicken?

Edited by Connie Sutherland (06/28/2012 04:22 PM)
Edit reason: clarify title

" 2 Atopia 100 mg x 2 times a day."

What is Atopia? I don't know it .... is there a generic name on the bottle too?

Just throwing this out there in case it helps. it is virtually impossible for a person to get enough live probiotic culture in yogurt alone. Not that it isn't a good food to eat. But for a dog it is milk or soy based and they would have ot eat A LOT oto get a really good dose. I feed Tanka a person probiotic when I want him to have one. I have a great one, and a pretty good one. I give him one or the other and I know he gets a good dose when he needs one.

Well, now that you ask about his reactions on the scratch test, I forgot to get a copy of the results. But the ones I remember are citrus, cedar, pine trees, misc grass, fleas and ticks. Next month we go back to the Derm Vet for check up and I'll get the paperwork.
He also has yeast and a fungus. I do not have the names on those either. (Don't believe I didn't get copies of all the test). But I was kinda overwhelmed by everything she was telling me.
We are lucky with him as he is a lazy boy and since this has become so bad we are keeping him in the house except to take care of business now. Trouble with Florida, always something in bloom.
We very seldom have windows open and now we will not do that either.
We are wiping him down couple times a day and we will do it everytime he goes out now. Also paws.
Yes, we have a HEPA vacuum
He is on people probiotics from Solaray Multidophilus
He is on salmon oil at 2000
He is on vit e at 400
Atopica is Cyclosparine Capsules. What I understand it is one of the newer meds for allergies in dogs. Of course very expensive and very strong. It comes in a generic for people and the Derm Vet said maybe we can use that starting next month. Lots cheaper. Either way I hate to keep him on it for very long because of long term side effects.
Derm vet said if he is better by next visit she will think about doing the elimination diet. They did not test for food, so I'm not sure what she thinks about that at this time.
I would like to get him back on raw asap.
(I'm giving him 1 teaspoon x 2 day of bone meat with his cooked chicken now)
The only proteins he has not had kibble or other wise are the premium foods. Goat, Elk, Vension, and Rabbit. All very expensive. She did give me a copy of her diet plan which is one protein, white potatoes , bone meal and salmon oil.
So, I'm wondering if I can start him with maybe organic chicken which it seems most of them are fed soy and corn. We have been getting chicken at wal mart. Try for 8 weeks and if no improvement move on to something else. I can get chicken from a farm for 2.50 a lb.
(besides wanting to go raw, kibble never agreed with him when he was a pup. I tried all the best brands and he always had an upset tummy or the runs. It is the reason I found raw diets and the Leerburg way of thinking.)
Anyway if the chicken (even if it is better quality) is not the way to go, I'm not sure what we will do. I've even tried the mexican grocery but they have no clue if their meats are grain free. Plus he has had beef, lamb and buffalo already.
Also what do you think of us going to a Holistic vet? Work on some herbs and supplements. They also said they can help with diet.
I take a lot of supplements and found the right diet for myself and it has really helped with my own health problems.
Think that is everything.
Thanks again

Oh, Atopica!

You typed Atopia, but I should have figured it out.



Atopica after one visit surprises me. I hope you received the full info sheet about what to watch for as far as side effects go; this (like NSAIDs and Pred) is a drug to be fully informed about.

This is a detailed overview: http://www.2ndchance.info/atopica.htm This is information that every owner should know. There are very effective almost magic bullet meds, yes, and I have used them, including Pred, but only with full awareness.

"He is on salmon oil at 2000." At 105 pounds? 2000 mg?

"They did not test for food, so I'm not sure what she thinks about that at this time." There is no test for food except the elimination diet. There are hints (sometimes different body geography, a few other things), but no test.

"(I'm giving him 1 teaspoon x 2 day of bone meat with his cooked chicken now)"

How much bone meal to how much chicken?

" I forgot to get a copy of the results. But the ones I remember are citrus, cedar, pine trees, misc grass, fleas and ticks. Next month we go back to the Derm Vet for check up and I'll get the paperwork. "

They can email the results to you. I would want that, because this is what you paid for and what the intradermal tests were done to find out.

"The only proteins he has not had kibble or other wise are the premium foods. Goat, Elk, Vension, and Rabbit. All very expensive. She did give me a copy of her diet plan which is one protein, white potatoes , bone meal and salmon oil.
So, I'm wondering if I can start him with maybe organic chicken which it seems most of them are fed soy and corn. "


No. An elimination diet is limited to foods the dog has never eaten. Yes, "one protein, white potatoes, bone meal, and salmon oil (and E)" would be a typical elimination diet. But the whole crux of the elimination diet is that all suspected foods are eliminated. An individual cannot be allergic to a food he has never eaten.

The individual allergic dog (or human) who has a predisposition to forming IgE antibodies (antibodies called Immunoglobulin E) forms them against, say, chicken protein, during sensitization, which is the period when the dog's immune system is exposed to enough of the allergen for him to manufacture antibodies to that specific protein.

THEN, those IgE antibodies bind with their specific allergen, and they make mast cells release histamine and other chemicals, which cause the symptoms (in dogs, of course, it's usually itching because their histamine receptors are mainly in their skin, unlike ours, mainly in mucus membranes).

As you see, the foods that are "suspect" would be the foods that the dog has been exposed to. Chicken is one of the top four food allergens for dogs (this is easily understood: allergies develop on repeated exposure, and chicken is an extremely common dog food). It would be a very rare dog in this country to whom chicken would be a novel (not eaten before) protein. It's nothing about chicken per se --- it's simply the commonness of its use as dog food. (Beef is another of the top food allergens for dogs.)

So long way of saying no, chicken would not be your elimination diet protein.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659+1664&aid=143

Scroll down to "Food trials and elimination diets."


Also please note:

QUOTE: The diagnosis for food allergies is very straightforward. But due to the fact that many other problems can cause similar symptoms and that many times animals are suffering from more problems than just food allergies, it is very important that all other problems are properly identified and treated prior to undergoing diagnosis for food allergies. Atopy, flea bite allergies, intestinal parasite hypersensitivities, sarcoptic mange, and yeast or bacterial infections can all cause similar symptoms as food allergies. Once all other causes have been ruled out or treated, THEN it is time to perform a food trial.
END PARTIAL QUOTE

You have discovered a lot of atopy already, and you don't yet know the response of the dog to the meds. (Food allergies don't usually respond to Pred or Atopica the same way that they do to atopy. JMO, remember, and I'm not a health professional.)

Also, as mentioned above, it would be important to me to analyze how best to minimize his exposure to the worst of his individual allergens.

IMO, again depending on what his worst allergens are, I'd probably be looking at a lot more mechanical removal (via thorough rinsing of him and very frequent removal by vacuuming, laundering, etc.).

"Plus he has had beef, lamb and buffalo already. "

One thing to be sure not to do is NOT to give any new proteins now; reserve what you can for a possible elimination diet. (I suspect we can come up with something. When you don't need RMBs because you are cooking and adding calcium, there are many more options.)

"Also what do you think of us going to a Holistic vet? Work on some herbs and supplements. They also said they can help with diet. "

Do you have access to a holistic vet with a derm specialty? (Derm is a specialty among holistic vets, too.)