Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51343 - 05/28/2002 11:03 AM |
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Just a mini update:
For now, I'm going to stick with the choke collar, and work on keeping her interested in me.
Then, when the book comes, I'm going to read it cover to cover. After that, I will re-evaluate, and decide what to do.
I thank you all very much for the information and suggestions that you have made,
Aimee
ps- I feel compeled to coment on the 'sharpened prong'. I don't know about the people who have dogs just for sport use, but I could never, ever see a companion dog owner using one on their dog, and if they did, maybe they shouldn't own a dog in the first place.
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51344 - 05/28/2002 12:17 PM |
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I think the original question was if the dog would become collar wise. You can correct this by having the dog wear a prong collar at times outside of training.
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51345 - 05/28/2002 02:22 PM |
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Sharpen the prong? Are you -F-ing crazy?!?!
Nobody better do that, that is just about the #1 stupidest thing I have seen so far on this board. Even if you hook both rings. That is super dumb.
Dog trainers are some of the stupidest people on the face of this planet.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51346 - 05/28/2002 02:42 PM |
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VanCamp, That is exactly what I was thinking.....I just didn't have the guts to type it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I still remember when I said "YOU DO WHAT???!!!" when someone told me they sharpen their prongs because their GSDs weren't behaving on a normal prong. Some people.....
Here is another moniker for you.
"Service with a Smile...........and a Finger." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51347 - 05/28/2002 03:20 PM |
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Sharpening a prong...I have heard about that over and over. Dumb DUmb DUMb DUMB!!!
Go to one of Flinks seminars and you will see how to have an incredible bond with your dog at top notch competition level W/O sharpened prong...W/O shock collar on the genitals(I know no one mentioned that but happens as well).
If you have to sharpen the prong, get a new dog and start over. Give that dog to someone who knows what they are doing.
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51348 - 05/28/2002 03:37 PM |
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Todd Gaster wrote:
If you have to sharpen the prong, get a new dog and start over. Give that dog to someone who knows what they are doing.
EXACTLY.
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51349 - 05/28/2002 03:41 PM |
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Todd. One word. OUCH!!!
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51350 - 05/28/2002 03:45 PM |
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Dumb, stupid, wrong, bad......ooops....don't mean to jump on the bandwagon!LOL I DID say that I didn't like the sound of it!LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51351 - 05/28/2002 03:46 PM |
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Van Camp. You seem a little passionate! Anyway, as I said, before, no disrespect to anyone but really you don't have a clue as to what you are saying. I am not suggesting that this lady puts a sharp prong on her dog and goes and hammers the dogs kneck, making it look like a hamburger. I just shared a few ideas with the board. Your vulgar remarks are un-called for. I am sorry to say but we all must come off of this soap-box of looking down on complusion, The electric collar on some dogs at a high level is just as damning or far worse then a loose fitting sharp-prong giving it a litte tug. It is nice to look at a dog that someone has trained in Ob. and that dog is really minding well, and the trainer is holding his ball and saying, oh this is all you need to do, and the dog is 7 years old; well I stand firm in saying that the dog is one in a million or at some point there was complusion put on the dog. How much/; that depends on the dog, but it is a good chance that the heavens came down and hell came up on him or her at some point for something. As far as there being no room in the sport, I am sorry but this is the way it is done. Maybe you start off with a positave foundation , but pressure has to come into the program at some point to achieve reliabilty. Stupid? Once again it may sound hard and not all dogs need this, and I would not tell a person unless they were comfortable with the idea but all it is, is a pinch if not abused. Nothing more. It is far more abusive to take a dogs kneck, and pop it 35 times and get 1/2 results then one pinch to make the point. I find that one good correction with a prong is worth 50 choke chain corrections with alot of dogs. Some dogs don't need a prong. I aggree with this. But some do. Talking about the sport 98% of the dogs need either a tight fitting prong loose sharp prong, or electric to get results of a high level. I like to get my point across, I have tried all of these happy food methods, only to have the dog shoot me the bird, and find out later that these happy dogs that were used as examples, were trained using another method. I would rather give a dog a good lasting impression with one or two corrections, according to the dog, then have my dog not minding me and fighting other dogs when on my walk,or check Ed's web sight about the e-mails that make him mad; some complusion training would have saved everyone involved alot of grief. This down play on complusion for dogs, and being abusive, well, too many young children have been mauled or killed for this reason. Everydog is diffrent, but when you have a problem dog, pressure used correctly, will get you the results, not pure hot dogs and fur-savers. Is this bad training, well it is also common-sense. As far as there being no place in competiton for sharp-prong trainers, and hard complusion,I guess if we did not have these methods half of the dogs would be gone out of the trials. I have also watched police dogs handles choke dogs because the prong was to harsh looking to use to them. What I saw was abuse, that a sharp-prong used correctly, would have saved the animal some grief, and alot of conflict. If a dog understands the safe place, then when he does not mind the animal should be made to mind. Giving him little tugs and repeating commands and not being consistant, is only creating conflict. I do agree that new trainers should watch and see how many diffrent people do the same thing, this is how we all learn.
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Re: Should I switch to a prong?
[Re: Aimee LaPenta ]
#51352 - 05/28/2002 03:58 PM |
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Todd, I knew Benhard was going to be brought into this. LOL. Let me start by saying that I like his training, from what I know of it. What I am about to say is in no way trying to slander. I also have heard it from two diffrent people that were at one of his seminars. His dog was on a down and got up, he put it back down and the dog broke the down again, well Benhard said something to the effect of I don't like to do this in front of people , but i can't let him do this, and he picked him up and put him down in the spot, in a way that was described to me that it made people cringe. Noone would say anything but I think the account was accurate, and was this form of pressure any worse then a sharp prong? Come on. Again every top trainer uses hard complusion in one form or another at some point. Benhard included from what I understand. You can call it dumb, stupid etc. but it is the truth. Maybe this should be moved to another post. I have not seen one dog that was trained using light pressure, and is reliable and happy. There might be some but I be they can be counted on one hand. I am not talking about jerking a dog with the sharp-prong and not using a ball or food, but I think people are jumping on the motivational band-wagon.
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