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You can take crap and wrap it up in a pretty bow, but it's still crap.

LMAO! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Will, I wonder what's going to be the topic of conversation at training this weekend? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have a million sayings that go to this same phrase - i mean if you want a few more I can help ya out

* why try to be the top of the pile - its still a sh*t pile

* no matter how many cherries or whip cream you put on it, its still a sh*t pile

* and (what every comment you like) is one good flush away from being with the rest of the sh*t pile...

Congrats <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well, not much of that one post was referring to ya - just hitting on a couple topics that ya hit on, thats the problem with forums - too many internet warriors that want to slam someone and plus its hard to read the context of what the topic was suppose to mean sometimes - I think I may have met you before anyways - your name sounds very framiliar or we are friends with the same group of people..

Anyways - yea the program does have mickey mouse stuff to it - you or jeff made a comment about needing to follow an established sport (i think it was jeff) - and how people formed SDA because they couldn't hack it in the other sports - is just a retarded statement - it was geared to give people that didn't have the interest of being a dog trainer to do something with their dogs (the entry level titles) and then the dog trainers a set of titles after that they could compete in - and they had the approach that people will do it or they won't - what I think is funny is how everyone slams it but if they don't plan on participating in it, why should it bother them? Does it effect your sport of choice? Is it going to take form your dogs any? My opinion is this - if its such a joke, then people shouldn't worry about it and it would never effect them, but you still have to look at the part, which other sport is getting some muscle to help us fight the courts? Also - I know people in all the sport organizations, I do my fair share of traveling and I have also seen several respectible people compete or participate in SDA events that are dignified in their sports... I remember hearing all this same stuff when PSA first started up - and I am sure when other sports started up, people were saying things about them as well.

As for Jeff - make all the comments you like, if you are looking for an argument to troll on, you won't get it here, I could give 2 sh*ts less what anyone has to say, I am just a person who works his dogs and once in awhile desires to show them - I just thought I would help educate you a little bit on how their efforts can help us all before its too late...

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....how come I can't change my password? -..... i change it but it doesn't save it....

I just changed mine and then changed it back to see if there was any weird trick. There isn't.

Go to "my home." Click on "edit" at "personal information."

Delete all the asterisks (which represent the current password) in the "password" box and type in your desired password, which has to be between 4 and 20 characters. Delete all the asterisks in the "verify password" box and re-type the desired password.

Click on "SUBMIT" on the bottom of the screen.

Log out. Log back in with the new password.

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Sorry, SDA is part of the problem, not the solution.

It's just going to be another venue run by trainers that were not able to compete at a level where they could do well in an organized, established sport like SchH ( or PSA, or ASR...all sports that demand a lot more than the feeble requirements of SDA ), so they made up a weaker sport in which they can be the "Big fish in the little pond".

And you'll be seeing those titles on every sub-caliber dog in America, where they'll be used to con the unsuspecting buyer into thinking "whoa, look at all the titles on that stud! I gotta have a puppy from him!"

You can take crap and wrap it up in a pretty bow, but it's still crap.

Sorry, it was Will who made the comment,

So - please enlighten me and everyone else who reads this great forum which sport is the solution being as you know what the problems and solutions are? You make acusations about people having a puppy mill or copping out because they can't hack it in other sports - You don't think this happens in other sports? And also, you mention ASR and PSA - if those sports are the solution, then why aren't they so popular then? (granted PSA has been doing pretty good lately, but PSA people will agree that the scenarios were getting out of hand and their future is undecided)

The common pet person who would purchase a dog from a puppy mill - is going to buy a puppy from that puppy mill regardless if they did a schH title or bought a dog from a schH background, or PSA, Ring or any other sport - people who participate in these organizations don't buy puppies from puppy mills (at least I travel and test my own dogs) so I don't worry about those people, they are going to happen and theres nothing your patriotic typing can do but sit back and complain about other people doing things... Puppy mills are all over - but their dogs aren't the ones being used for sport or street work - so why are you worried about it, unless you plan to crusade against them all, which - you will have to help instill new registration rules but then again you will be fighting UKC and AKC - but if your up for the crusade, then I am too - but even with all the working people, we can't do a dent against the show people and the pockets of those 2 organizations.. Catch the drift...

But please tell me what the solution is - because I guess I am lost and I am dying to know..

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....how come I can't change my password? -..... i change it but it doesn't save it....

I just changed mine and then changed it back to see if there was any weird trick. There isn't.

Go to "my home." Click on "edit" at "personal information."

Delete all the asterisks (which represent the current password) in the "password" box and type in your desired password, which has to be between 4 and 20 characters. Delete all the asterisks in the "verify password" box and re-type the desired password.

Click on "SUBMIT" on the bottom of the screen.

Log out. Log back in with the new password.

Thanks alot - I got it to work doing that same method, I guess I just didn't log back out.. Highly appreciated <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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the sports aren't geared for the defensive aspects of the dog - or do you think that sports test a dogs defense vs its prey?

Now here is a man that has never seen an ASR trial <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ASR IMO fully tests all the drives, especially defense. It's not all about defense but your dog will be put in defense tremendously by the decoy and if your dog can't stand the pressure it'll show. Not at all being negative about PSA but from what I have seen of PSA the decoys pretty much test the prey, and enviromental soundness of dogs which one can say is a direct reflection on the nerves. I personally don't see any real defensive pressure being put on the dog. Not intentionally at all making this into an ASR VS PSA thing, but since you said, sports aren't geared towards defense, I'm saying ASR will fully test your dog defensively as well as the other drives.

Also, I was on this other board that I sometimes post on, and there was one Jack a** saying ASR was scrounging for members so upon reading that I had to respond, and this will sorta answer why ASR isn't as "popular" a program (I'm guessing you mean by the size of ASR). We are commited to growing one club at a time, not a gazzilion in which you can't handle the incoming, then you have to loosen standards to accomadate, not to mention there is no thorough screening of the new club. I tread on saying this but ASR is almost selective in a way. The below post in the box was my response to ASR scrounging members and helps explain ASR's slow growth which is by design:

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ASR doesn't scrounge for members. I can say that there isn't ANY bulls*** in ASR. Everyone gets along, and everyone is friendly, courteous, and yet professional with each other. We truely are a family, not an organization. We would rather have 10 hardcore members that get together and train and have great trials than an organization that grows so fast and to big that the founding ethics and good order gets lost in the sauce (I am NOT refering to PSA, just speaking in general). The ASR BoD's has actually paid special attention to NOT grow so rapidly, but a controlled growth which is a healthy growth. We don't scrounge for members because that is when you end up scrapping the sh** out of the kennel floor. ASR is committed to grow and it is, but the BoD's and us members will NOT sacrifice the good integrity of our program just for it to grow. When honest, hard training willing to contribute folks come through we welcome them, but scrounge for members ASR will never do. Another thing is the current ASR membership is steady, meaning we have a great membership renew rate. Most who become members STAY members. Thats what we want, dedicated folks, not people who send in money, and hit a trial every year or so. If people aren't going to be proactive they might as well keep their money. We support each other also, ASR members travel and if not competing they are there to help or spectate and support. ASR members go to trial and no one says anything about 1st place, no one cares, everyone is always talking about hoping their dog does well, and hoping that the other dogs do well. The atmosphere is more about competing against the program and hoping your dog is being himself that day rather than, I hope such and such's dog screws this or that up because I want the highest in trial or 1st place. You NEVER hear or see that kind of stuff. So like I said before, scrounge for members? NOT ASR.

I have never seen an ASR trial - but I have heard several things about it (some good and then the usual "its a copy of..") but from what I have heard it seems pretty entertaining and like a good deal - just didn't get alot of support to help it out. But thats kick arse that they actually test/work the dog in everything - and its funny because you have to becareful on how you word things on here because when you say "defense" people instantly assume your beating a dog backtied to the fence <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think alot of the other organizations had good idea about testing all aspects but fall short - I mean look at the courage test in SchH - when watching Clark Neimetello, James Laney and Ron Marshall catch dogs - your like alright, thats a hell of a test (and I know all those guys and they are great trainers - so don't try to twist anything on that) but then you see some other helpers bait the dog from down the field and it turns into a down the field sleeve bait and allow the dog to key on the sleeve the whole time... I know in Ring, which I love because the helpers can take away points from the dog - but they do alot of moving/flopping around, granted after the dog has his initial grip there are several stick hits, but the dog already has his grip=prey - although, if fluffy doesn't make contact, he has to put up with the barrage which I like.. Then you have SDA - I can only comment on the P1 for right now, because I haven't seen any of the farther titles, but they put some threat to the dog and when they make contact - you have to turn and then drive the dog - my arguement here is, for 1 - the dog is onleash, we aren't going to crash him, 2 - the dog makes his grip and instead of being able to drive over him, i allow him to suck up in prey and collect himself as i pivot and turn for the drive (its in V pattern) - and I don't know much about the other sports - but they all have good and bad aspects and they have people that will either do them or they won't.

Also - I will add this, I do think that some people get carried away with distraction scenarios (sometimes it seems he who e-fries the dog the best does ok) - and some people get carried away with the type of catches (have to think about safety for the dogs and helpers)... But what it all comes down to is this - don't expect me to sit here and do too much talking, I don't get into very many discussions on forums because (this isn't geared towards you chris but to the other readers) the minute you step into a forum, its full of people who know everything and they can't be wrong - and what cracks me up is - people in dog forums are worse then religious people at times... But, I guess thats what keeps me coming back for the enjoyment of forums...

So - I will have my introduction - I have been on the forums for awhile, just never posted on anything and I joke around alot and am pretty outgoing - if you get offended about anything, man up and say something, its the internet - in most cases I didn't mean to offend you but if I do, you will know <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Another comment for Will,

You said something about people will look at a stud because of all the titles they have on it and say - wow, i need to breed to this dog or get a puppy from it, I think everyone will agree that if a person is stupid enough to go off what they see on paper - then they deserve what they got coming, but that post basically points out that you think just because a dog has a bunch of titles its something (or that other people will think that)? I personally think titles are the equivelent as toilet paper - I base my puppy searches off the dogs themselves - when I see a dog has achieved a bunch of titles - that shows me that the owner enjoys participating in events with their dogs - I credit them for that, but I have seen many dogs with titles but worth nothing more than a couch weight <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Jesse wrote: "There are still some really nice GSD's out there - but the people breeding and handling them are on a decline - which is going to put a spin on the breed as a whole just like the other working breeds have done."


This is not the reality of the situation.



I've bitched and bitched about the decline of the working GSD, but having just returned from a trip through Europe. . .I'm not so worried.

The people in Europe breeding and handling GSDs are not swapping breeds, nor are they on the decline. People involved in dogsport are aging, which is a concern for everyone's breed of choice, but they are not dropping GSDs to work Mals. I saw many clubs that were just packed with dogs of very high quality.

Anyone who thinks the breed is on it's last leg needs to go to Europe and spend time in the clubs with the working people. Great dogs are crawling all over the countryside. . .and only a fraction of them are making it to the US. It's pretty stunning really.

I came home with a renewed hope for the working GSD and a new level of disrespect for dog vendors and importers. LOL

Thats great!!! - now we just need to figure out what everyone is doing wrong by not getting those dogs here... But what worries me (as a GSD lover) is that I feel some people are abandoning the GSD's - its either that or the Malinois has somehow found a new cell of people hiding away somewhere because look at the totals for national events here stateside and other big events across the pond - GSD is increasingly becoming the minority -

I personally have taken a personal break from Shepherds (I still have access to a bunch that I really like) but I have cooled out on placing street dogs and have kinda found an interest in showing (I've always trained my dogs for various forms of work and helped several SchH competitors with their dogs) but I dabbled in a couple trials this summer and plan on doing alot more next year. I myself like a challenge and have owned alot of breeds - I personally am working with dobermans (they are a pretty neat breed) and they are in big trouble when it comes to getting some working support.. But on the flip side, how do I showcase a talent with a dog thats easy to train (a malinois) or work with something thats labeled in most peoples eyes a dead working breed.

I agree - there are some really nice dogs overseas - quite a few dobermans are popping up these days too but its sad that when I route for the offbreeds to win an event I have to include the GSD - so lets get the national teams overthere taking home some hardware... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />