Yes this is geared towards humans. A human's opinion. I don't think a dog's opinion really counts unless you look at the reason the dog is doing the sport. I don't mean "because master said so" I mean training methods, reward system. Prey drive - getting the prey is its own reward for things like flyball, frisbee, dock diving etc. But if you look at it this way then nothing is work it is all a reward system. The dog is conditioned to behave and do things for reward or benefit of the dog. The dog is much less concerned with what it is doing than what it is going to get for doing it. IMO. Outside of training you have instinct and natural behaviors and traits. I think the dog would view its role in the pack to be the real work. Sentry/bark at strange things/look for prey to hunt etc. etc. as the dog is not doing these things based off of conditioning for reward by humans.
This is partially what confused me with the whole ..: Is Drive the Only Qualifying Trait of a Working Dog?
My ponderings on this was from looking at companion dogs that do things that require more than basic training or things that are intended for work or something real outside of a competition.
Here is a combination of my posts editing out what I have already stated and adding a bit more:
Inregards to dock diving, agility, flyball, weight pull etc..
Yes these dogs need some sort of drive for training and the competition but is mid level prey drive or intense food drive enough to classify a dog as a working dog?
I don't know. I just have ideas in my head that only dogs with a real purpose behind the training are working dogs - even some sport dogs are very serious and the intent behind the training is for real work/basis of real work etc. SchH, Ringsport, tracking, etc.
Service dogs I consider working dogs as they have a purpose, the training is often pretty intense and involved and the dogs have to be a specific type and capable of the stress and whatnot. Those are dogs on the far end of the spectrum from PPDs that should not have intense drives as too much drive would impede their work ability.
I don't consider dogs that only do OB a working dog. I don't consider a frisbee dog a working dog. To me, these dogs have drive but what they do is not productive. They are often good dogs but people play frisbee with their dogs in their backyards. People teach their dogs to sit and lie down and walk on a leash in their neighborhoods. I don't work with other people's 'working dogs', outside of my own dogs I work with pets. I have done OB training on pets that if the owners wanted the dogs are capable of doing competition OB but these are still pets/companions.
I suppose the line would be that the people were ambitious enough to compete a dog they trained well enough for competition OB but things like dock diving? Weight Pull?
Regarding OB:
I think it is very important but I don't think a dog that is strictly a comp. OB dog is a "working dog" OB competitions are to show the trainers ability not the dogs ability. I think it has to do with the difficulty of the task and training involved. Any work under distraction is one thing and requires a degree of control and focus, but even complete idiots can teach a dog to sit, down, stay, and heel on command reliably. It is a testament to the dog's temperament but a dog that will sit down stay and recall under minor to intermediate distraction to me, is not a working dog it is well trained pet/companion.
I think proving a dogs trainability, drive, and temperament through competition is important and good for owners who take the time to train their dogs and compete them but there are people who consider conformation dogs to be "working dogs" because their dog competes.
If a dog competes in multiple things I think I would be more likely to consider it a working dog even if those multiple things were flyball, frisbee dog, weight pull, dock diving, OB etc as it shows versatility and a lot of time taken to train the dog etc but still most of these are not practical.. it's see how far my dog can jump? see how fast my dog can run? see how much my dog can pull?
Regarding sport dogs:
I amended that most sport dogs are not real PPDs. I may have dogs and want dogs and train dogs for real work and have sport as more of a proof of the pudding so to speak and to follow certain methods and training techniques associated with different sports (like now I am getting into Mondio and French Ring) but in general I don't think that sport dogs can all be lumped into the working dog category. I think specific individuals whose handlers/owners go for sport for titles to prove they have a working quality dog as it is difficult to prove you have a PPD otherwise.
Now for me to add in regards to hunting. IMO hunting dogs ARE working dogs. Think feral hogs. Cougars/bears that have hurt or attacked or killed people or pets. People who rely on game birds taken during a season for food. Rat or rodent/pest problems affecting crops or foodor livelihood... I could go on.
I am glad Carol started this as a real thread after our musings.
Re: Working Dogs vs. Companion/ Hobby
Top
Previous Topic
Index
Next Topic
