I always hesitate to pipe in on any thread regarding diet where Connie Sutherland has already spoken, but I feel so strongly about chicken being an allergan in some dogs that I throw it in because I don't think it hurts.

I have only personal experience - I'm not a vet and have no medical experience. I have 3 dogs, one of which is allergic to chicken. If he eats chicken he gets icky, yeasty, smell-like-Fritos-feet that turn that sort of rusty/burgundy color (he is off white - sorta very light gray).

I have recommended to at least 3 friends or family members whose dogs were having skin problems and/or smelled yeasty to cut out all chicken. At the same time, for 2 of them, I was recommending grain-free because these are folks who feed kibble. I told them to not only avoid foods labeled as chicken flavor but also to look carefully through the ingredients list and make sure there was no chicken. The 3rd person is a raw feeder.

For 2 of them, it worked and one was the raw feeder so I know it wasn't the 'grain-free' that did it! The skin problems have resolved.

So this could have no impact on your dog but it's worth a shot if you have other protein sources available to you such as turkey, pork, rabbit, beef, etc...

I feed turkey, pork, beef and green tripe.

I hope you're able to figure out what is wrong. Good luck.

Yes, you are absolutely correct that chicken is one of the Top Four of the food allergens for dogs. Food allergies develop on repeated exposure. The most-eaten foods are the foods most likely to trigger allergies. Add to that the fact that some dogs are sensitive to the "flavor enhancers" injected into many brands of chicken. (True food allergies, though, as opposed to sensitivity or intolerance, are to proteins, even in foods not thought of as "protein foods." That is, for example, a true grain allergy is really an allergy to the grain's protein.)

Usually, the dog with a true food allergy has been eating the diet containing the culprit ingredient for at least 24 months. (Not always, but typically.)

A food allergy can develop in a dog as young as 5 or 6 months, but this is much more rare than a food allergy in an adult dog.

 Quote: amanda gazzard

I got him at 9 weeks and he is now 4 months. ... He has been an itchy puppy since we got him ...

But even though chicken is indeed one of the Top Four (and so is beef), food allergies in dogs still account for only 5 to 10% of dog allergies, depending on the source. That is, food allergies are FAR behind flea saliva hypersensitivity and atopy. (OTOH, a dog with food allergies often has non-food allergies as well. This is why the testing and elimination of culprits is carefully done and carefully recorded.)


Yeast overgrowth is a "side effect" of the allergy. (It can be a "side effect" of illnesses and bacterial infections, too.)


To identify the food allergen, the dog is put on a strict elimination diet. This means that a couple of foods the dog has never eaten are the only ingredients in the diet. No treats, meat-flavored pills, leftovers, Kong filling, etc.

The proof of the food culprit is when the elimination diet removes the allergy symptoms.

Then the system is challenged, slowly and carefully and methodically, ingredient by ingredient, until the culprit is exposed. That culprit is then removed from the dog's diet.


Unfortunately, there is significant overlap in the body geography of atopy versus food allergies. Both involve the ears, both usually involve the feet. Still, there are hints about which it might be from body geography. Another hint about it being food would be a lack of response to steroids, and another would be lack of seasonality.


You (Cathi) are kinda fortunate, really, if your dog had to have an allergy, to have it be food. Food allergies are definitely the simplest to identify (not easy, but simple, if the elimination diet is done properly). Food allergies are also the easiest to "fix," by withdrawing the offending food from the diet (and holding procurable protein sources in reserve, never feeding them, in case of another elimination diet for another food allergy down the road).

There are many links here and descriptions of the food-allergy mechanism. I'll dig up a couple of overviews.

Drs. Foster and Smith have good overviews:


http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1587&aid=503

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2082&aid=143

 Quote: Cathi Kemp

I always hesitate to pipe in on any thread regarding diet where Connie Sutherland has already spoken ....

Never ever say this! Please! I get more info here than I give, hands down.

Even in my areas of research (nutrition and allergies), I can't begin to tell you how much I learned from comparing notes with Mike Armstrong and Lori Hall and many others. I also picked up recommendations to two very useful books from this site (Dr. Messonnier's book and Huffnagle's The Probiotic Revolution).

So never say that!

I did the white sheet test and we found 2 dark flecks that appeared to turn red when we put a drop of water on them. They were 2 out of about 15 flecks that we tested. Does this mean that he has fleas? I'm actually hoping that he does!! haha. I don't want to have to deal with him having allergies. We just gave him a bath and once he dries a bit I'll apply the advantage. Fingers crossed that it works!

Yes, it does mean he has fleas.

A dog with flea saliva hypersensitivity can be driven crazy by a single exposure.

You will want to do everything in the flea-cleanup threads here, too, starting with his bedding and your carpets (and empty the vacuum outdoors straight into the outdoor trash).

He still could have a second issue, like mites, but good for you, because you have found external parasites.

I'm with you in having a feeling of relief, BTW.

PS

Please keep a good eye on his ears (inside). An ear infection is MUCH harder to fix than prevent. Look regularly for inflammation and/or increased debris. If you see either one, post back and we'll help you.

Also, check his ear flaps for raggedy edges.

And again, good for you! You have found either the whole problem or at least a chunk of it.

I like to put a moth ball in the vacuum but I'm told napthalene is toxic so perhaps that's unwise.
Soon it will freeze and remaining outdoor fleas will slow way down.

Oooh, I didn't know that (the moth ball thing).

I do know I'm looking forward to the end of what has been a very bad flea season, at least where I live. And it started during a very warm spell last DECEMBER. :-(

I forgot to give a recap of the bath method for a flea-ish dog.

The SOBs are wily little %$#&+-ers, and they are very fast to get up on the dog's upper neck and head to escape the water.

Briefly, there are two big pointers: start with a wide band of suds and soakingness around the dog's upper neck, and when you rinse, rinse very thoroughly with clean water (not the bath water). If you don't have a hand-held hose or something like that, you can do what I do, which is to have a big plastic cup (or any plastic container) to use to pour clean faucet-water over the dog (in the armpits and legpits and undercarriage and tail, too).

I use the actual shower to rinse the big dog.

In hot summer, of course, the hose can work well.

Also, I have a terry washcloth for the dogs. That soaking washcloth squirted with dog shampoo (not people shampoo) and applied vigorously gives much less escape route for the horrible little bugs. (Wait until you see five or six black dots embedded in the terry loops after you scrub the neck and leg and rump areas. )

I also continuously wash dirty water down the drain if I am seeing fleas in it.

Then straight to the flea med.

Oh, and I vacuum the carpets just before the baths. And the dogs' blankets, etc., are in the washing machine.

Also, a very important thread:

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/341110/page/0/fpart/1

QUOTE:
My dog can't have fleas.
None of them have never had fleas.
I don't see any fleas. (I didn't--ever. I looked, I combed, I inspected flecks with a magnifying glass.)
None of the other dogs is itching.
Must be an allergy.
END QUOTE from first post

And anything that can't be washed (like pillows) can go in the dryer for a hot bake to kill fleas.