Alright, i just glanced over this entire post(which started out with a description of a boerboel), and came away with the understanding that mastiffs can jump 8' fences , run 25 miles a day, intuitively push bad people out of the way(but not bite them), and have perfect reliability around everyone else. After reading all that, i decided to have a talk with my 7mo. old gsd. When i explained that i wanted him to act like a mastiff, he bit my leg, grabbed a shoe, ran into his crate and slammed the door and told me to leave him alone,now he won't talk to me, go figure <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> AL

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Alright, i just glanced over this entire post(which started out with a description of a boerboel), and came away with the understanding that mastiffs can jump 8' fences , run 25 miles a day, intuitively push bad people out of the way(but not bite them), and have perfect reliability around everyone else. After reading all that, i decided to have a talk with my 7mo. old gsd. When i explained that i wanted him to act like a mastiff, he bit my leg, grabbed a shoe, ran into his crate and slammed the door and told me to leave him alone....AL

He can't believe you requested this behavior without even giving him a cape and tights.

Heck I consider it a great feat when I can get my Bullmastiff to wake up if someone comes to the door. She is a sweetheart but unless the guy is made of chicken she is not biting anything.

Alice, from what you've written your idea of naturally protective and mine are the same. I'm not really interested in the fighting history or into that thing either. The worst part of my male was his animal aggression, that is not fun! I'm more interested in the mastiff (generic for any mastiff breed) as an estate guardian. I'm not interested in a dog that's going to rip the bad guy to shreds. I like a dog to use proportionate force as the situation calls for. I also like a discerning nature like you described and stability above all. I don't want a dog that's going to be a disgrace in public and a danger to innocent people. I don't like loose cannons.

Cool stories! Did you live in Hells Kitchen, NY?

If I could find the mastiffs you described, I would get one. But if people aren't testing, how can you know for sure what you're going to get? My personal preference for testing, is testing the dog protecting the handler in real situations that could happen, in different places, where a psychotic madman attempts to attack the handler and puts physical pressure on the dog to get to the handler. I also want to see psychological pressure along with the physical in an effort to make the dog fold and give up the fight. I like to see the dog love those types of situations and want to see the dog elated and pleased with himself afterward. I don't want to see stress, I want to see confidence and a genuine love of a fight, but with a responsible outlook. Not a dog looking for a fight for no reason but one glad to get into it if necessary. If he doesn't like it he's not reliable IMO. I'm not interested in making dogs protective that don't like that kind of thing. It's a waste of time, and it's mean. That's why I like naturally protective dogs. I've heard so many of the experts say that most dogs won't protect, which is why I'm interested in testing. They know more than me so I believe them. You never know what you have unless you test, and if you wait for a real situation to find out, you might be in trouble.

Anyway, I think what I'm looking for would be hard to find in an EM these days, which is why I like bandogs. I'd love to have a respectable breed, if it fit what I'm looking for. However, if Tigger is part EM, there's an EM somewhere farther east of where I live that produced him, and that gives me some hope, but not a lot. He probably is what he is because of the cross breeding.

Funny you should mention that Al. When I was discussing the same with my GSD, my JRT strutted up, pissed on my shoe and said, "Bring that big, ugly, sumb!+ch here!" "I'll show em what PPD means." And he HAS gone over a 6ft brick wall from a sitting position.......well....he hit the wall near the top, but he DID get over it. Not bad for a 12 1/2 inch, 14 pounder, with ATTITUDE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well Bob, he opened the crate door and threw my shoe at me while i was checking my wounded leg so......., NO VIDEO GAMES TONITE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, I'm not even sure he finished his math homework, bad dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> , AL

Hey VC. I believe that many Mastiffs cleared even higher walls than 8 feet. Early in the inception of the breed, many dogs were lost, or not used in the breeding program, due to an inbred inability to withstand impact.
Later advances in breeding produced a dog that could survive with minimum damage the impact that occured after being tossed by a catapault. These dogs were immediatley named "mastiff" which in french means "dumb useless friendly dog to be tossed over walls crushing the enemy" (this is a loose translation, I don't speak french.)

Later, through careless breeding the ability to survive impact was bred out of them, and replaced by slobber, making them even less likely to achieve breed standards and false history of guarding ability. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

You guys are just hilarious <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Nobody is saying the mastiff is this superdog. The GSD is superior in everything that counts, don't worry <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />, but don't discount a good mastiff type dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

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Alice, from what you've written your idea of naturally protective and mine are the same. I'm not really interested in the fighting history or into that thing either. ...I'm more interested in the mastiff (generic for any mastiff breed) as an estate guardian. I'm not interested in a dog that's going to rip the bad guy to shreds. I like a dog to use proportionate force as the situation calls for. I also like a discerning nature like you described and stability above all. I don't want a dog that's going to be a disgrace in public and a danger to innocent people. I don't like loose cannons.

that's a mastiff. i know they have a lot of issues they didn't used to have. but i have never heard that this aspect of their temperament has changed.

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Cool stories! Did you live in Hells Kitchen, NY?

yes, i did. used to walk in central park at 3 a.m. without a care in the world. after my dog was gone, my life there changed. i no longer felt safe, and i was a prisoner in my apartment after dark. i wasn't ready to get another dog, so i got out of the city.

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If I could find the mastiffs you described, I would get one. But if people aren't testing, how can you know for sure what you're going to get?

hm. you are asking for a lot. have you found that banddogs fulfill your requirements? then why not be happy with them?

first of all, you certainly could find mastiffs that are like what i describe. lisa has them. but mastiff breeders i've known would never test for such a thing. it is just accepted as inherent in the breed. go back and look at the descriptions of the breed's temperament in many of the old mastiff handbooks. tons of stories in those books that are like mine.

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My personal preference for testing, is testing the dog protecting the handler in real situations that could happen, in different places, where a psychotic madman attempts to attack the handler and puts physical pressure on the dog to get to the handler.

barbara, where do you live? if ever i was going to run into a psychotic madman it would have been in hell's kitchen in the 1980s. you know, my biggest fear when i lived there was that i would run into such a person and he would have a gun and shoot my dog. the most protective dog in the world is powerless against a gun. i'd never wish to find myself in a situation that could result in the death of my dog. running up against a psychotic surely could have that result. really, how likely are you to get into such a situation?

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I also want to see psychological pressure along with the physical in an effort to make the dog fold and give up the fight. I like to see the dog love those types of situations and want to see the dog elated and pleased with himself afterward. I don't want to see stress, I want to see confidence and a genuine love of a fight, but with a responsible outlook. Not a dog looking for a fight for no reason but one glad to get into it if necessary. If he doesn't like it he's not reliable IMO. I'm not interested in making dogs protective that don't like that kind of thing. It's a waste of time, and it's mean. That's why I like naturally protective dogs.

i can't imagine any mastiff i've known "loving" that situation. but that doesn't mean he would fold or lose his nerve, either. he wouldn't show stress, and he'd be confident. but he wouldn't be elated, either. he's just doing his job. he neither loves nor hates it. what you describe sounds more to me like a pit bull of the type i haven't seen in a very long time. another good breed that has been ruined. that elation and pride and joy in fighting comes more from the fighting breeds, i would think. so, scratch the mastiff on that requirement.

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I've heard so many of the experts say that most dogs won't protect, which is why I'm interested in testing. They know more than me so I believe them. You never know what you have unless you test, and if you wait for a real situation to find out, you might be in trouble.

i think that is probably true. i think it is also true that many dogs rise to the occasion when needed and greatly surprise their owners. i can't think of a test that would prove what you are after unless you staged a fake attack on yourself. and a puppy probably isn't going to respond by protecting you. the truth is, you really don't know what you have until the dog is older. and an older dog will never be as bonded to you as a dog you have raised from puppyhood, imo.

your best bet is to get a breed that has a reputation for what you are looking for, and then hope for the best, jmho. even in breeds that are known for the kind of protectiveness you seek, you can always wind up with the one pup of the litter that just doesn't have the nerve. there are no guarantees.

i will say that anyone crazy enough to cross a mastiff after that mastiff has demonstrated that he means business is someone crazy enough to carry a gun and use it on your dog. or you. some things in life you just can't protect yourself from with a dog.

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However, if Tigger is part EM, there's an EM somewhere farther east of where I live that produced him, and that gives me some hope, but not a lot. He probably is what he is because of the cross breeding.

i dunno. he sounds like a mastiff to me. good luck with your search for the right next dog!

oh, and i'm back on my regular computer, so i'll post some more pics of ben. or rather, links to them.

Quote:The GSD is superior in everything that counts, don't worry , but don't discount a good mastiff type dog

I personally would put my money on the JRT. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I really do like them, as long as they are your dog and not mine! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />