Jenn,
Somehow what I was trying say didn't come out right or something.
My comment about the leash/off leash, was really an attempt to illustrate how equating the hardware to respect or the lack of (I thought I'd use those words as you seemed to have a feeling for them) respect not in yours or the dogs best interest. Of course I knew Teagan is not to be trusted off lead. My point was why pick on the collar? It could just as well be the lead.
Shrug, I could be the lazy one. Depending on a pinch to control a dog when I'm caught unawares, or when the dog becomes willfull. If thats the case, I plead guilty. I won't give them up, they'll have to come pry the collar from my cold dead hands if they want my pinch collars!

Jenn,
Nobody here that knows your story doubts how very far you, Luc and Teagan have come. And in no way did I mean to discount or take away from that wonderful story Jenn. I for one, am proud of you.
Even if you could walk with her '100%' sure she wouldn't become reactive to another dog, person, cats, squirrals, whatever, I'd still say use your pinch collar. No matter how you acheived the results.
A dog like Teagan deserves that distinction. Think of it as a badge of honor.


If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy


PS.
Jenn, if it makes you feel any better, outside of areas I can reasonably control, I don't let Cassie off lead either. For both her safety, and the safety of whatever may set her off.
And I'm sorry for any misunderstanding, I wasn't slamming or berating you, if it came out like that, it's not how I meant it.
We're all proud of you.

 Quote: steve strom

.... Slapping, spanking..... quite the little vixen there Connie.

Oh, no .... not at all. I meant to say "spanking gloves."

Seriously. I have no slapping gloves. That would be weird.

 Quote: randy allen

.... We're all proud of you.

Yep!


And

 Quote: Mike Arnold

... You give yourself a few 'atta girls' for your efforts and take justifiable pride in your accomplishments. ....

It's counterproductive not to do this!

Connie and Steve, you guys make me laugh!

Mike, you're not obnoxious! Or at least, you're the good kind

Thanks all of you I do feel better now.

I'm having a bad day maybe? Thanks Randy. I get what you're saying now. It really is that I've worked so hard to be her leader (and I guess I equate respect in there) that the thought, even if inadvertant, that I'd need her to be trustworthy off-lead in order for her to really respect me or see me as her leader - I was like 'BAAH! that'll never happen!' (call me a negative nellie). The thought that I could have worked so hard with Teagan and for her still not to see me as her leader - even just a teenie weenie bit - made me sad. You know it's b/c I respect your opinion so much that I was like 'oh no!!!'

Otherwise, I will report she was very good on our walk/run (just a little short run at the end of the walk for her) when I got home

ETA: Also Randy, you know that's exactly the kind of perverted badge of honour Teagan likes! She probably thinks she deserves no less

Jenn,
If you look at the list you just made of where she was a year ago, you have come a really long way. I did not know you have had her only for that short of time. It has taken my female GSD (pictured) almost two and a half years to get where she is now.
She had gone through five before she turned 2 yrs old, and when I took her she was due to be put down because of a recent killing spree she went on at a farm. They told me not to let her around "any" other animals. I did take her to a group ob class and she did go after a golden. Do I think the class helped her? No not really.
She was very food/toy aggressive also. I had to break up a few fights over that topic. But now my 13 yr old blind cat can walk right past her food and she looks the other way. Stay on top of her training. And just look at this as training for you and the dog. And if in the future you decide to get another dog, there will be nothing that dog can do you haven't already delt with from Tegan.
p.s. I still do not let Shena meet dogs face to face. They can walk by, fine no problem, they just can not get in her face.

Thanks Laura. That's good to hear about Shana and her progress

I know Teagan has made progress, and I am very proud of her for that. I shouldn't let myself get frustrated about what our future would bring.

Teagan isn't good with my small animals either - I separate them. I got an e-collar to work with her on that but since she doesn't show overt warning signs I got really nervous I would miscorrect her and potentially drive what warning signs she does show away by miscorrections.

My bf last night - who understands that she is aggressive, obviously - was saying that she shouldn't be - just that it shouldn't be like that with her, it's not how dogs are supposed to be - I didn't know what to say other than that with her, the reality is that is how she is.

I had a dog in the past who was documented tortured both physically and mentally. I allowed him to snap sticks in half until his rage was satisfied and the red left his eyes. (And, sometimes, it took a lot of sticks). Gradually, we shifted to shredding newspapers, and then, he finally he didn't need that outlet. It took several years to get to that point. He was a dog that was going to be put to sleep but I wanted him. We developed a bond early in his time at the Animal Control and I saw potential. I also worked with observing him and what triggered him. (We had a good relationship, albeit, a strange one for years.)

On to Teagan,

The more I read about Teagan, the more I think of Post Tramatic Stress. Not that she has it, but I have known Vietnam Veterans who, in reality, know where they are and how they should behave, but when triggered, react as if they are back in the war.

I don't know what triggered Teagan's need to attack or if its in her genes, or etc., but it is what it is. Something had to have happened to make such a strong impression on her. Maybe explaining it this way to him, may make him see it differently.

And, if she had more abuse or encouragement in the past to attack or felt there was no choice, it is what she has learned.
(See the above Viet Nam Vet).

And, remind him, Teagan is smitten with HIM. That must count for something in his eyes.

 Quote: jo harker

The more I read about Teagan, the more I think of Post Tramatic Stress. Not that she has it, but I have known Vietnam Veterans who, in reality, know where they are and how they should behave, but when triggered, react as if they are back in the war.

I think that's oversimplifying a bit.
PTSD "reactions" are largely an autonomic nervous system (ANS)response, and therefore partially involuntary.

Not that PTSD isn't a good analogy for reactive aggressive dogs.

You were an angel for that dog

Oh, it does count that she's smitten with him. He does love her. She can be a bit snotty with him but it's b/c he likes to get her all excited and play with her and she sometimes forgets her manners how they play. The aggression freaks him out more than anything, I think. The level of supervision she requires and that sort of thing.

That's really interesting about the outlet! I took her to a SchH club the 5th week I had her - partly to get some input on some of her behaviours (didn't love the club), but also to see if it would be a good outlet for all her prey drive. She got diagnosed w/HD and a bone chip in her left hip the next week though. But I've always wondered if I could find a good outlet for her. I think a dog with her history probably shouldn't be in a protection sport, but. Right now we play tonnes in the house, walk, hike, and do short runs, so I try to make sure she has physical outlets, but I don't think we do anything to give her mental aggression an outlet.

She is better at her baseline reaction though. I mentioned in another thread sometimes if we're inside and she sights another dog I won't step in to see how her reaction has changed, if it's changed, and it's much better now. She used to go into the window, realize she couldn't get the dog, start barking, then run through the house and at the window throwing herself at the window barking. She'd do multiple runs/at the windows. Now, she'll press up against the window and start barking. If I take her away but do nothing else, she'll pace and whine and mumble.

I'm not sure about PTSD. She gets very stalk-y with small dogs, you can see her go into hunt mode almost. But all of her behaviours - I don't know. Interesting. I wish I knew what shaped her, but in the end, she is what she is and I'll never know. Human curiousity and all that though

That's a good idea to explain it to him that way. Thanks