I would be happy to speak to any person for you. BUT - you paid these people, there is no reason in the world that they can't explain to you in words that you completely understand what they think is wrong with your dog and what they think the best "fix" is.

So I understand, is this something that came on quickly? And the main symptom is wobbly back end, weakness? Also pain? Is one leg worse than the other? Does the tail wag? Does the butt stand open?

Does the dog have a fever? Has anyone done a CBC? Is this dog vaccinated for rabies?
I agree with Kiersten that improvement is GREAT.EG if there was a tumor in the cord there would be no improvement, it would only worsen. Also agree that MRI's for veterinary interest are not worth the money, a competent exam can point to the diagnosis very clearly.
Do not fear prednisone. It can work miracles.

Short-term Pred can indeed be a magic bullet to break a cycle.

One day between an NSAID and Pred is insufficient, IMO, from everything I've read. It's not antibiotic-steroid interaction that's the issue; it's starting Pred with an NSAID still in the system. JMO!

Also, of course I agree with not interrupting an antibiotic protocol.

Betty is so right that you need a pencil and a piece of paper and an appointment (even on the phone) to get all your questions answered in terms that you fully understand. The printed list is great, because otherwise (if you are like me) you will ramble, forget half the questions, and forget three quarters of the answers. Not wasting the vet's time goes along with the demand for complete explanations, for me. I make myself ready and I have everything written down.

Just to make sure that my post doesn't bury Dr. Betty's post:

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

I would be happy to speak to any person for you. BUT - you paid these people, there is no reason in the world that they can't explain to you in words that you completely understand what they think is wrong with your dog and what they think the best "fix" is.

So I understand, is this something that came on quickly? And the main symptom is wobbly back end, weakness? Also pain? Is one leg worse than the other? Does the tail wag? Does the butt stand open?

Does the dog have a fever? Has anyone done a CBC? Is this dog vaccinated for rabies?
I agree with Kiersten that improvement is GREAT.EG if there was a tumor in the cord there would be no improvement, it would only worsen. Also agree that MRI's for veterinary interest are not worth the money, a competent exam can point to the diagnosis very clearly.
Do not fear prednisone. It can work miracles.

Okay, I think we had a pretty good conversation today, even though it was bad timing and I didn't have a pen.

I asked some very pointed questions:

Is there a chance anything is broken?

She said based on what she, the radiologist and the surgeon observed, she is 99% sure there are no fractures.

So what do you feel his diagnosis is?

We are fairly certain, with the history of trauma and the immediate onset of this that there is pressure on a nerve. A bulging or protrusion. They feel it's the lower back because it's only affecting his hind legs. The surgeon said there is also the possibility of a cyst in there.

We are looking for anything that is causing a decrease in space between the discs. Unfortunately, the x-rays aren't giving them this information. At a minimum, they need to do a CT scan.

She said if it was my dog, I would be doing the CT, which should at least confirm the cause and location. And based on the lack of immediate response to the meloxicam, I would put him on prednisone.

We went on to talk about this extra vertebrae and how it's joined to his sacrum. It's apparently called a transitional vertabrae and bottom line was that his is very asymmetric and it wouldn't be causing this. It's a genetic defect that may have predisposed him to the injury (longer back and she went on about a piece that is fused to the illium - I stopped her there - it's the edge of the sacrum) but it's not what's causing this.

Depending on what and where this nerve pressure is (cyst, narrowed vertebrae, bulge, protrusion, whatever, that they're not seeing with these x-rays) will determine the next course of action. She said there is some hope for the prednisone, but not much if it actually is a nerve issue. And as long as he's not showing any deterioration, she feels comfortable going this route. I'm to call her if there's any changes whatsoever.

We talked about a few other things; specifically he’s doing a lot head shaking and the ear with the punctured drum is sagging quite a bit, not all the time just droopy once in a while. She grabbed at a few straws but wasn’t sure what would be causing this.

She wants a follow up once the prednisone is done, if not sooner and felt the prednisone may even have a beneficial effect on his ear drum.

And Dr. Betty, thank you so much. It was great to see your offer when I got home.

As wonderful as it would have been (it sure sounded good at the time and still does if you want to take a stab at this ). I think I understood things a bit better today. And it may have been the better head space I was in but I don't think she really said anything different.

And to answer your questions specifically:

So I understand, is this something that came on quickly?

Yes, he was at a fast pace, came to a quick sliding stop and did a twisted flip on the ice.

And the main symptom is wobbly back end, weakness?

Yes, like those decrepit showline GSD’s, is the best way I can describe it. He’s normally fairly wide legged and boxy in stature and his back legs are now quite close and kind of wobbling into each other.

Also pain?

He sure was after all the testing but he's not really showing any now. He can't jump in or out of the back our SUV. He's squealed twice and can't seem to judge the distance, or just can't make it - he normally sails in like a gazelle. We're using a ramp now. But he does go up and down stairs with no vocalizing.

Is one leg worse than the other?

Yes, his left.

Does the tail wag?

Yes, but it didn't a couple of months ago for about 3 weeks. Echo, who has a good 30 lbs on him collided into him. He had the zoomies and they connected in a rearing type motion and Vince fell back on his butt/tail and squealed. He couldn't move his tail for almost a week and it was painful if we tried to raise it. It slowly started to get movement back and was in full flag after nearly 3 weeks. The vet is aware of this too.

Does the butt stand open?

Hmmm...not quite sure what you mean here. When he's pooping? I haven't really noticed but I'm finally off tomorrow and can keep an eye on this. With the back legs so weak though, he's very low to the ground, almost touching it when he has to relieve himself, not normal for him. He has quite a high arch. Oh my, I hope that's what you're asking.

Does the dog have a fever?

No.

Has anyone done a CBC?

Sorry, have no idea what this means?

Is this dog vaccinated for rabies?

Yes, the vet that knew him.before I got him, said he's been fully vaccinated, including rabies. I don't have the dates but I could get them.

I agree with Kiersten that improvement is GREAT.EG if there was a tumor in the cord there would be no improvement, it would only worsen.

That's good to know. And may be why this vet is fairly comfortable going this prednisone route, for now and to contact her should I see any deterioration whatsoever.

Also agree that MRI's for veterinary interest are not worth the money, a competent exam can point to the diagnosis very clearly.

I totally get this. And I'm not sure if it's so much their curiosity as they can't seem to come to any conclusive certainty without them???

Like I mentioned, if you’d like to call them, it's on my dime and whatever you think it's worth for your time. I think those are about the straightest answers I'm going to get with the knowledge base I have.

And I picked up the perscription of prednisone after work. He didn't get a meloxicam this morning and she felt I could start on the pred tomorrow night.

They're 50 mg tablets and I’m to give him half, twice a day for 5 days and then one half once a day for the next five days.

Oh my, anyone who makes it through that definitely has the patience to be a dog trainer.

CJ. I am so sorry to read about Vince's problems. I think you have worked really hard at understanding what is the cause of the problem and how best to address it. It is wonderful to see how many board members have rallied to offer their experience and help.

From personal experience I can say that inflammation can cause debilitation in movement and nerve function. The sooner you can alleviate the inflammation the better.

I have similarly experienced the worry about whether to have tests done and also came to the understanding that it was the treatment protocol that was key here.

I discovered that very small differences in spinal structure can lead to certain symptoms of pain and immobilization: if the spinal canal is asymmetric, or narrows in any way, even a small bulge can have a dramatic impact on movement and pain.

These kinds of injuries often require time, lots of time, even after the main inflammation is addressed.

My experience of Prednisone was that it creates a phenomenal thirst and to have lots of water available...and it creates the need to pee.

I looked for alternative and complimentary treatment methods to assist in the healing process. I have found homeopathic remedies and the Bach remedies to be helpful here. I have not experienced hydrotherapy treatment for dogs, but if it were available I would look into this as a way of rehabilitation when the time came for this.

 Quote: CJ Barrett

Does the butt stand open?

Hmmm...not quite sure what you mean here. When he's pooping? I haven't really noticed but I'm finally off tomorrow and can keep an eye on this. With the back legs so weak though, he's very low to the ground, almost touching it when he has to relieve himself, not normal for him. He has quite a high arch. Oh my, I hope that's what you're asking.

Hey CJ,
sorry to read about all the trouble you're having.
I think that what Betty was asking is (ahem) is he clenching his butt hole closed (geez..how else do i explain that!!)
meaning, in his normal everyday activity their anus is clenched shut (umm..like clenched fist)....if it's open you would definately be able to see the difference. It would not have a clenched appearance. I think she's trying to figuyre out if he still has the ability in his back end to keep the anus closed.
Now, that's what im getting from the question..i could be way out in left field!

sending out some prayers and thoughts to my fellow Canadian xo

Thank you guys.

And Wendy, ahem, phheeew. At least your understanding is in the same general vicinity.

And if we're purely talking anus, I just got him a bit excited, which usually brings his tail up and had Bob hold him. He seems a bit sensitive in the tail, just doesn't really want it touched, kind of stiffens it down really quick, but his butt hole looks pretty normal to me. It doesn't look "open" or like it's squeezing tight in any way?

Gosh, thinking now, I suppose a picture would be worth a thousand words. Bob has just left and I'm not sure I could get that one on my own. I could tether him to something but with this sensitivity, he'd probably try to dance around avoiding me. Probably not the best thing in his condition.

Hey Cj,
if it was "open" you would definately be able to see a difference.
if it looks the way it normally does i would say it's staying "closed"

poor guy...now you want to take pictures of his bum!!!

 Quote: Wendy Lefebvre

Hey Cj,
if it was "open" you would definately be able to see a difference.
if it looks the way it normally does i would say it's staying "closed"

poor guy...now you want to take pictures of his bum!!!

^^note the above comment was made in an attempt to make you smile for a second.
Im not making light of your situation or your concern for the big guy )

Hey Wendy for sure, totally taken in context.

I had a few giggles myself reading that question last night and was really hoping I was on the right track. I'm usually a pretty light hearted person, looking for smiles anywhere I can find them and have to admit the thought of taking a picture was giving me one of those OMG, what next giggles.

And I've seen enough dog butt that I'm sure I'm capable of describing what going on there. I just need to get the question right.

Thought Sheila might pop in and tell me what kind of wide angle butt lens to use.

But....I'm also quite ignorant when it comes to this type of injury and am willing to do whatever needs doing to get to the bottom of it.