Donn Yarnall: All right Fred, remember, you started this unnecessary conflict.
Fred Hassen: Was replying to Lou's post.....Lou brought it out here for discussion.......and here we are Donn.
Donn Yarnall: I take exception to your innuendos and snide remarks. Yes, you never said my name, but like all your other posts I have read, you always leave yourself an avenue of escape. I have never joined in one of your self-promotion discussions as a courtesy, even though I disagree with your techniques in most cases. And you have never heard or read on any lists any negative comments or implied remarks about you attributed to me.
Fred Hassen: First of all Mr. Yarnall. You would have no logical reason to have any negative comments towards my work, since you have never seen me personally work ANY kind of dog, but you have seen Butch's dog when it came to you. I have never personally said anything bad about you, because I have never seen you work a dog either, although I will say that when I met you in person....you were quite a gentleman, and I was shocked to hear you respond through Lou Castle......you always know where to find me.
Donn Yarnall: The comments Lou made on this list and others regarding the dog Caesar was from a private conversation we had on the subject of compulsion and balking. I suspect he chose to repeat parts of that conversation because of your frequent inferences to training PSD’s – typically you never give a straight answer. Somehow I think if you had trained even one PSD, we would all know about it.
Fred Hassen: Mr. Yarnall....All of my work is public record. I have never been a police officer, and have never claimed to be. I have privately only worked with the Tucson P.D. and did a seminar for 6 different departments in Ga. Sgt Lewis has seen me work, on 3 different private occasions, and once with his unit. He is also coming back to give a demonstration on my next visit to Tucson. The chief that I worked with in Georgia, is in continual contact with me, and is planning a visit back to Vegas. Now, if they were offended, and thought I was off my rocker......I'd think they'd know by the 4th visit. There are actual working pictures on my website of me with the officer, and in each and every instance, they let me handle their dogs. I think they'd be smart enough not to hand their dog over to someone that was not showing them results. Give the police more credit than that.
Donn Yarnall: Incidentally, I have talked to police handlers that were ordered to attend one of your so-called seminars. They will state only privately that it took them two weeks to get their dogs back to acceptable working levels. Once again, your “Sit Means Sit” compulsion methods are focused only on demanding compliance and will throw a good working dog way out of balance.
Fred Hassen: It's hard to get everyone to understand everything, and do everything correctly in two days. You can't please everyone. I'm sure you are not insinuating that everyone that attended your two day seminars went away with nothing wrong ever happening. I've talked to a few myself, and anyone that knows anything about dog training would understand that. Not everyone thinks Donn Yarnall is the greatest thing since sliced bread......don't fool yourself.
Donn Yarnall: You have never done a search, tracked a lost child, or captured one crook with a dog. Your lack of true experience with working dogs coupled with your constant protective posture is what prevents you from truly understanding the all around balanced hunter needed for police work – and when a dog is thrown out of balance in one area – such as using too much compulsion in protection/control, it significantly effects the working ability in other, more critical areas.
Fred Hassen: Donn, people call me for my knowledge of the collar and how to apply it. In fact, as Sgt. Lewis said "I don't need you to teach me to be a cop.....I've been one for 25 years, I need you to teach me how to use the collar so I can apply it in areas that I see fit." No different than any other application. YOu have never even seen me work.
Donn Yarnall: It appears that every time you visit, talk to, or have any association with anybody in law enforcement or SAR, you make some big announcement on several lists that infers that these people are coming to you for help and to fix problems. You have done this with Las Vegas Metro, Las Vegas Marshall’s, Tucson PD, me, Lou Castle, etc.
Fred Hassen: I have never said that Las Vegas Metro comes to me, although people like you try to infer that. Feel free to post all of these sayings here, since I've done it so many times. As far as what I've said about the Marshall's dog....it's posted above, and I'm not budging. Tucson P.D. it's posted on my site, and I'll be in Tucson for another private seminar of which Sgt. Lewis will be giving a demonstration at. His written testimonial is on my website. I was the featured guest speaker at his Tucson P.D. trials that had units from all over, and he invited me to work with his staff. That's that story. Lou Castle.......I've said it before on another board......Lou is the product of YOUR work....not mine. Glad you brought that up.
Donn Yarnall: It is clear you are at least initially ready to exploit names in areas of working dogs that impress at you. Face it – you are a namedropper. OF course no body knows these names, but you put some kind of title in front and everybody assumes they are knowledgeable. And those that do know these people are not going to jump in and bad mouth them all over the Internet. So, as you have discovered, dropping names and titles lends credibility to your statements to the uninformed. You always pump them as if their abilities somehow reflect on yours– that is until they become business competition, question or disagree with you. Then you kick into full-blown defense with unctuous comments and thinly veiled insults. And, like the defense dog that lacks courage, you quickly bow out when others call you on your questionable statements. It is always interesting how you pop back up on a list you previously resigned from when the heat is off you and you need to promote yourself or drop names again. So let us get down to the truth Mr. Hassen. It’s guys like you that take credit for others’ reputations or achievements that cause so many law enforcement agencies to ban outside civilian trainers from even watching their training. It’s not that they are afraid or have some super secrets – it’s because they have been burned by circus performers before.
Fred Hassen: Enough of the personal shit Donn.....let's get back to the facts of the matter.
Donn Yarnall: A perfect example is this situation with the Las Vegas Marshall’s Office and the dog Caesar. You brought it up, so let’s put the whole truth out.
Fred Hassen: Ahhh, now we are getting somewhere.
Donn Yarnall: Asst Chief Bill Frazer is a good man and an excellent cop, and I don’t think he will appreciate you dropping his name here.
Fred Hassen: I'll go one further. Great man. Feel free to print this whole thing and show it to Bill.
Donn Yarnall: But you dropped his name so let’s tell the whole truth. Chief Frazer will be the first to tell you he has no experience with dogs and has no concept of how a police dog is trained. A friend had given him an older male Jack Russell that was out of control. You were a local dog trainer so he paid you to fix his problems.
Fred Hassen: First error on your part. Mr. Frazer paid me nothing. I did it for free. Again, everything I state can be printed and shown to Bill. He paid for the collar of course, I wasn't going to lose money on the deal. He also ended up ordering a second one for his girlfriend.
Donn Yarnall: Of course you used the e-collar and were able to stop much of the unwanted behavior.
Fred Hassen: Nice try. Taught him "Quiet"....the dog barked at everything, "Come", "Sit", and "Down". That's not just stopping unwanted behavior. Came to the lessons.....listened, and applied.....great student.
Donn Yarnall: Bill likes you personally Fred – many people do. But being likeable is a necessity in your business, is it not? You are a salesman – being nice is your job. It is easy to be nice when you are being paid.
Fred Hassen: Most people like me when they meet me Donn....that's because I tell it like it is. As I said, I did it for nothing, and you don't train 20 new ecollar clients per week, and have 6 vans on the streets, because you are nice. It's because you get results, and because you are fair and honest with the people.
Donn Yarnall: Butch Martin and Caesar Sch I (two more names you dropped), attended and graduated from the San Diego Police K9 Academy certified for patrol and narcotics detection.
Fred Hassen: That is correct.
Donn Yarnall: That is the extent of Martin’s K9 experience. I don’t think he will he will appreciate you dropping his name here either.
Fred Hassen: That is not the extent of it. He has hours and hours of work in with me learning to handle a collar. He's been to our club a number of times, privately many hours. That's alot of handling. In fact Mr. Yarnall........I privately invited Bill Frazer to come and observe a session in Henderson to see all the progress that Butch had made. Mr. Frazer attended, along with someone else who I am not sure who that was. You'd have to ask Mr. Frazer. He observed Caesar going like a rocket, calllng off at the decoy's feet....the whole deal. He also observed my dog Maddy, and our decoy Alfredo Rivera doing alot of the work as well. Long before you came around. As to your comments about Butch.....feel free to show him this as well.
Fred Hassen: I first met the team in October of last year while I was giving a month long course to another LEA in Nevada. I only saw Martin work his dog a few times – but I did train extensively with the other two dogs in his Department.
Fred Hassen: That sounds right. I remember Butch was working with me at the time. Yes.....I had nothing to do with the other dogs ever.
Donn Yarnall: It was clear that Caesar had excellent drives and courage and had potential to be an excellent police dog. There were a few issues that I discussed with Martin, and advised him and his supervisors that the team needed additional, consistent training and to seek out a knowledgeable police dog trainer locally. It appears they went to you instead – perhaps you are the only game in town. To them, a dog trainer is a dog trainer. Also, Bill Frazer was impressed with your ability to gain control. Of course he has no concept of what the consequences can be for a police dog when the trainer’s sole focus is robotic compliance.
Fred Hassen: Really Donn.....which dog are you referring to that I've worked with that you have seen. Enough of the personal crap that you haven't seen. Back to Butch please.
Donn Yarnall: A few months later, LVMO requested a 3-day training seminar. You had already worked with Martin/Caesar a little.
Fred Hassen: No Donn...I worked with him ALOT. Mr. Frazer asks me to help him with this, and I do it for nothing, and you are trying to tell me that Mr. Frazer is not going to appreciate the hours and hours of free time that I spent with Butch and his dog. Yes, Donn....please show this to Mr. Frazer. If you don't.....I'll be happy to.
Donn Yarnall: Caesar had a few minor problems with balking and anticipating control commands. I noted that Martin was using high levels of stimulation causing the dog to vocalize.
Fred Hassen: As I said earlier....I have a club tape of Caesar working, and Bill saw the dog working as well. Nice try though.
Donn Yarnall:
He was also using only momentary stimulation. It was clear he had just replaced the leash with a remote collar. The dog was somewhat nervous and lacked the intensity I had seen a few months earlier. I asked him about his use of the e-collar and he told me it was what you had taught him. I showed Martin how using comfortable, lower levels coupled with escape training techniques brought back the intensity and focus in the dog.
Fred Hassen: Please Donn.
Donn Yarnall: A couple of weeks after I left LVMO, I was contacted by them again and asked to be their contracted trainer. I agreed and went for training again. Martin was on vacation at the time so I did not get to see Caesar work. However, I did return again for training and I saw Caesar working. He was back to anticipating control, would not stay in the B&H, and lacked his normal intensity. Martin was again using high levels and momentary stimulation, and once again stated he was using your method. I instructed Martin on the proper use of the e-collar again and after a few short sessions, Caesar was back in shape.
Fred Hassen: Hey Donn....why is so much attention on Caesar?? The other 2 dogs are Sch lll's that you work. I didn't have time to screw them up. They should blow Caesar away. Imagine all the time you had to spend fixing all the screwups that I had. I can't wait to see the other fire breathing, super tack sharp dogs. I'm sure you will have no problem repeating your super performance with this dog. Can't wait to see the others. No balking, no delaying, super call-offs, super sharp attention, the whole deal.
Donn Yarnall: BTW, all during this time, you blasted over all the lists that you were training this dog and what a great dog he was. You even tried to elicit comments from me. I let it slide and looked at it as just another trainer trying to better his business.
Fred Hassen: Yea, yea, yea.....get to the facts Donn....the facts.
Donn Yarnall: A few weeks later I returned to LVMO and worked the dogs over several days. The first night, Caesar would hardly leave the handler’s side and exhibited signs of confusion and stress. The dog would not stay in a B&H, and in some cases would return to the handler half way to the decoy. On other occasions, the dog would be commanded by Martin to bite, the dog would take 5 or 6 steps forward and stop. The dog would balk until the handler ran past the dog towards the decoy and encouraged him to engage. If he did engage, he would only do so while the handler was in close proximity. Once the handler moved away, Caesar anticipated a recall and dropped off the bite. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that these are classic behaviors of a dog that has been improperly trained with the e-collar.
Fred Hassen: You'd have to be a little more specific. You could have been doing call-offs where the dog may hesitate, or any number of reasons. At all of my seminars, I show our dogs calling off 10 times in a row, then sending them through with no hesitation. Ask the people at the Stroudsburg seminar recently. They are on the Malinois board, and 2 of them are police officers. I'm sure you will be glad to show me the other Marshall's dogs calling off that many times, and then going with no hesitation. I'm sure any rocket scientist will be able to evaluate it. I'd be impressed if you could do that half that many times. I'll look to see if they are sitting immediately (the other marshall's dogs). You do know that hesitation is a sign of improper ecollar training I'm sure.
Donn Yarnall: I watched the handler during this fiasco, and sure as can be, he was using the old momentary stimulation with high levels – just like you taught him. And BTW, he had trained with you just a few nights before. Once again, Martin stated it way the way you trained him.
Fred Hassen: I did speak privately with Butch about this. He did say that it has happened on a couple of occasions, but nothing even worth mentioning. I'm waiting to see your other dogs because you are claiming that none of this ever happens with your other dogs that haven't been screwed up by me. I'll see soon enough.......and I'm sure you won't have any problem with me asking you "Hey Donn, why did that dog take 3 commands to sit....did your method cause that?" I'll see soon enough when you bring the other all-stars out. They can't hide forever.
Donn Yarnall: Martin’s supervisors were at the scene and were understandably concerned.
Fred Hassen: Oh, I see now. When they were watching Butch when I showed them the dog, they didn't notice that the dog was hesitating all over the place right??? They just couldn't even tell that was happening. Now they are smart enough to see it. You know why?? Because it didn't happen when they saw it.....that's why.
Donn Yarnall: They had seen the progress we had achieved during the prior remedial trainings, and that once again the team had reverted. A discussion was held, and it was clear to them as well as me that Martin could not continue to train with you because your training significantly interfered with the dog’s working abilities. Martin was then given an official order by LVMO Staff Officers that he will cease all training with Fred Hassen. Martin was also given specific instructions by me regarding the training of his dog. It took at least two days to unscramble Caesar’s brain, but being the genetically solid dog he is, he bounced back and was actually more intense than I had ever seen him.
Fred Hassen: That's just a simply amazing story Donn.......you are the greatest.
Donn Yarnall: Another couple of weeks passed and I returned to train with the dogs. Interestingly enough, Caesar was working well, very intense, clean, with no anticipation. Martin was working the dog on low levels and employing the guidance system. Gee – what a surprise.
Fred Hassen: Certainly is. I'm sure those on this board already are familiar with working with you and the dogs never doing anything wrong afterwards. I'm sure they are familiar with their perfect call-off's after Donn Yarnall magic was laid on them.
Donn Yarnall: A few weeks later I shot a training video with all the LVMO dogs and handlers. Martin had maintained the proper training and Caesar worked very well. Once again you play on words and with your statement would like everyone to think that this dog Caesar, the one you put so many hours of training in, is so good because of you and that I used him as the feature dog in my video. He’s not featured as some outstanding example – he is merely one of four dogs shot in the video.
Fred Hassen: I've not seen the video...but
Butch's dog is outstanding. I'm sure the other Marshall's dogs are in their as well.
Donn Yarnall: Let’s see, the dog is a Schutzhund I – so that means there was at least several hundred hours of training by someone other than you.
Fred Hassen: Yes, you are starting to give other credit to the training I see.
Donn Yarnall: The dog went through at least 16 weeks of training at the San Diego Police Department K9 Academy – 8 hours a day – 5 days a week - extensive training by someone other than you.
Fred Hassen: Yep...that's what I hear...
Donn Yarnall: I have spent only a few hours fixing what you broke. So comparatively, that leaves very little training either of us have actually done with this dog.
Fred Hassen: All that training that I did, all those hours, and you fixed it in a few hours?? Good job Donn. That's the only problem that I caused after all of those hours I put in. Didn't my levels cause problems with everything else as well?? Doesn't that momentary cause hesitation with everything?? Why did the dog come when called?? You didn't mention that as being a problem. Wasn't he hesitant there?? In fact.....why did the dog even get out of the truck?? Why did Bill even want some help with the dog??
Donn Yarnall: Someone other than you did an excellent job of training with this dog long before you or I ever saw him. They deserve the credit.
Fred Hassen: I'm willing to give them credit as well.......give credit where credit is due.......where it's due.
Donn Yarnall: How dare you take credit for this dog – especially since you screwed him up. But that gets back to the real you, huh Fred.
Fred Hassen: He's on your video Donn.
Donn Yarnall: On another list you bragged about being able to use the e-collar to compel any dog into any action. I believe it was in response about a dog balking. Of course you never came out and said it, but you intimated that electricity could be used to make a dog faster and more intense in pursuit and combat. When you were pressed for more specifics, you cautiously tap danced around the question – how rare. Come on Fred, give a straight answer – have you used electricity to compel a dog into combat? – no semantics – no tap dances – yes or no. Perhaps this technique was used with Caesar and that is why you have videos of him not balking.
Fred Hassen: I'm not an internet trainer Donn. I show all of what I do in front of people. Feel free to chime in over at the Mal board on all of this that you are saying happens when I work dogs. There were two police officers there, and their dogs as well. I don't know if anyone here was there.
I know you weren't though, and never have been.
Donn Yarnall: I also take exception to your remarks regarding my video. Your comments are not only uncalled for, they are rude, without foundation, and unprofessional. Perhaps you are afraid someone will show something other than tricks. Your comments read like you are really afraid of the competition.
Fred Hassen: You could be more specific....I always stand by what I say.
Donn Yarnall: Your comments regarding Tri-Tronics vs. Dogtra are pretty petty – even for you.
Fred Hassen: Just mentioned that a good deal of Butch's work was done with a TT collar....I stand by that.
Donn Yarnall: I will not get into that argument. Then again, my whole business is not based on selling as many e-collars as I can.
Fred Hassen: Not much argument to get into......that's the way it is. I don't sell ecollars to anyone without our personal training Donn. I do not sell collars over the internet to non-clients. That is not what my business is based on. I sell 20 per week, because we train that many people per week. That's about 1,040 hands on clients per year. What's your point??
Donn Yarnall: I used Tri-Tronics for many years – probably while you were still in high school – or maybe it was when you were bar tending just a few short years ago.
Fred Hassen: Well, if my company is doing 1,040 per year....well, you do the math. It doesn't happen by accident, and because people's dogs are running scared to move Donn.
Donn Yarnall: In fact over the years I helped Tri-Tronics develop and field test many of the products they have today. It is a fine company with fine products. It just so happens that Dogtra has developed recent products with features that I have asked the manufactures to develop for years. These new features, coupled with the product’s reliability, have opened an area of ability that I could not achieve consistently before. Dogtra is my choice of e-collar – so what. I don’t sell them, I just recommend and use them because they fit my needs better than any other brand.
Fred Hassen: Great.
Please Fred,leave me out of your nasty little world. I don’t have the time or interest to expend energy on you or your tricks.
Regards
Donn Yarnall
http://www.donnyarnall.com
Fred Hassen: Lou brought it up, I responded. No tricks Donn. By the way, feel free to post to all of the people responding about my seminars what happens when I do, what I do. Besides, your educated argument is always welcome. Thanks for the chance to reclarify about Butch, and looking forward to seeing the other Marshall's dogs in the future. I'm sure they will be picture perfect. :-)
Fred Hassen
http://www.fredhassen.com
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