Connie, I realize that you need more specific info. I was just giving you what I have. Derm Vet said she had to mail the papers to me. That she could not do an e mail. So papers shd be here today. I'll follow up with this info asap.

Thanks Geri

Thanks for the info on the Hydroxyzine. My boy has been on it off and on for a long time. But, by itself, (2 to 3 a day at 50 mg) and with salmon oil, raw diet, etc it was never enough to help him.
So now it has been 2 plus weeks and he is doing well. We go to the Derm Vet for a check next Wed. Should have his paperwork on his allergies, I hope this afternoon or tomorrow and I'll give a report. I'd like to go to the Derm Vet with a little more knowledge and good questions for her.

Thanks

Connie,

Allergy report for my boy.
Can't believe I typed everything out and lost it, so here I go again.

4's
Histamine

3's
Fleas Mosquito

(ON the fleas and mosquito issues she wants at least 2 Medicate baths a month and 2 treatments of Advantix.)

3's
Johnson Grass Yellow Dock
English Plantain Goldenrod
Cocklebur Ragweed
Dog Fennel Bayberry
Box Elder Red Cedar
Live Oaks White Pine
Orange Tree American Elm
Black Willow Queen Palm
Beefwood/Aust Pine

2's
Aspergillus niger Cladosporium Sphaero

Microbiology Report
Organism 1 Staph Intermedius
Organism 2 Proteus mirabills
Sample source: Skin Pustule
For this we have Cefpodoxium (3rd Gen) for 1 month.

Also a thyroid panel
Free T4 and cTSH are low Normal and the T4 is Normal.
Not sure if you need all the numbers and Comments on those.

So For the last month we have been only taking him outside to do business. I feel so sorry for him that he can't play outside a little but he does love being in the house with us.
No way to get rid of the trees and grasses.

What direction do you think we should go from here?
My thinking (don't know if it's right) is allergy shots and then the Holistic vet and start with the natural supplements and such.

Thanks for all your time on this. You all have been a big help already.

Geri

 Quote: Geri Gill

Connie,

Allergy report for my boy.
Can't believe I typed everything out and lost it, so here I go again.

4's
Histamine

3's
Fleas Mosquito

(ON the fleas and mosquito issues she wants at least 2 Medicate baths a month and 2 treatments of Advantix.)

3's
Johnson Grass
Yellow Dock
English Plantain
Goldenrod
Cocklebur
Bayberry
Ragweed
Dog Fennel
Box Elder
Red Cedar
Live Oaks
White Pine
Orange Tree
American Elm
Black Willow
Queen Palm
Beefwood/Aust Pine

2's
Aspergillus niger
Cladosporium Sphaero

Microbiology Report
Organism 1 Staph Intermedius
Organism 2 Proteus mirabills
Sample source: Skin Pustule
For this we have Cefpodoxium (3rd Gen) for 1 month.

Also a thyroid panel
Free T4 and cTSH are low Normal and the T4 is Normal.
Not sure if you need all the numbers and Comments on those.

So For the last month we have been only taking him outside to do business. I feel so sorry for him that he can't play outside a little but he does love being in the house with us.
No way to get rid of the trees and grasses.

What direction do you think we should go from here?
My thinking (don't know if it's right) is allergy shots and then the Holistic vet and start with the natural supplements and such.

Thanks for all your time on this. You all have been a big help already.

Geri

I'm up to my ears in work right now and can't do justice to this, but I do see a huge clarification of something: the "two baths a month" meant FLEA baths. THAT makes sense.

You have probably seen all of the allergy-experienced owners here go on and on about rinsing or washing allergens off the dog as often as possible, before they come inside and also as someone else is ridding the carpets (etc.) of allergens with the vacuum cleaner and laundering the dog's blanket.

The first post that mentioned "two baths a month" floored me. Now I get it. These are two FLEA baths.

The report confirms something several of us said many many times throughout this thread, starting on page one: "This is CLASSIC flea behavior. If you look an any chart of itch-geography on a derm site or in a small-animal derm handbook, the base of the tail and the back are the top flea spots. And the flea-hypersensitive dog will almost always have concomitant paw itching. .... You are describing symptoms of external parasites (flea hypersensitivity)."


I'm not saying this in a "told you" way, but I AM saying it to emphasize once again to anyone reading this that when you see classic flea-pattern behavior and body geography, do NOT assume that because you don't see them, they aren't there.



Off that soapbox.



The high-level histamine report is a little complex. As you know from this and other threads, histamine is a chemical released during an allergic reaction, and it causes allergy symptoms (like itching).

The positive histamine report means (to me, but still a reasonable question for the vet) just that the control was histamine, and that it did indeed cause a strong reaction, proving that of the intradermal tests done at that time, the ones that had a negative result are really negative and not just because of, say, an antihistamine being in the system. (Long story short, the histamine reported as strongly positive is a control report.)



Sadly, it is not great news that virtually all of his numbers are threes. As Lori and others will confirm, this gives you less of a specific target (as you'd have with, say, two fours and twenty twos). It also helps to explain the lack of attention to minimizing exposure to the "worst" of his allergens, since there isn't a "worst."

Still, there are things to do mechanically, and a big one is the rinse-and-bath protocol (as well as the flea regimen).

And mosquitos are definitely time-of-day as well as environmental (standing water) sensitive.

And pinpointing the times and seasons as well as the geographical proximity of his "threes" can lead to removing something from your own property (it has for me!) and/or knowing what months (and in some cases, time of day) the dog may need the boost of closed windows, potty on concrete rather than grass, and maybe oral Pred and/or whatever antihistamine trials most beneficial to him.



Back later! At least, I know we can help with your goal of having a good list of questions written down to take with you Wednesday.




PS
Did I miss an answer on the fish oil, BTW? Is he really getting only 2000 mg?

PPS
" For the last month we have been only taking him outside to do business."
How is he getting exercise?

PPPS
How is the itching at this point? Also, what other antihistamines have been trialed with him, at what doses?



{I'm not a health professional. All JMO!}

Geri, your allergy report is a lot like ours was for Kasey. As Connie was saying, having a lot of low level allergies is harder than if they were strongly allergic to just a few. It's harder when it comes to making allergy shots work because you can only put 12 allergens in a vial of serum (at least that's my vets protocol), so you have to decide which 12 to do - some vets do have dogs that they make 2 or 3 vials of serum for. Anyway, just FYI, we do the shots, and have for several years, with the 12 things he is most exposed to (like grass). They do not stop his itching, but we know it makes things at least 50% better because we tried stopping them and it was worse.

So what we do is this:
Allergy shots
Weekly baths w/ daily paw washing
Keeping the place vacuumed as much as we can, and bedding washed
No playing on the grass - ugh, we hate this one the most!!
Antihistimines 2x a day
Prednisone low dose every 3rd day to break bad itching cycles
An antifungal Rx 2 days a week to keep yeast from occurring
If it's only his paws that are itching, a steroid spray for those instead of prednisone
Raw diet
Fish oil/Vit E
Probiotic

Wow, what a pain! But it's better than constantly watching him biting and scratching and damaging his skin. Our derma vet is amazed at how healthy his coat and skin looks! She has rarely seen rash on this dog. He never has to go on antibiotics anymore, and he's living a quality life instead of suffering all the time.

As far as staying in the house, Kasey just get depressed. We still go on walks, but we choose to walk where it's not going to expose him as much - like sidewalks, the strand at the beach, etc, instead of grass and fields. Then we wash paws when we get home before coming in the house.

One other thing to mention in regard to the holistic vet. I started trying a host of different things in the beginning, while starting the allergy shots, and I got frustrated because I didn't know which things were working, and which weren't. I think it's better to decide whether you're going to go down the Atopica path, or the allergy shot path, or the herbal supplement path one at a time. That's how my derma vet proceeded, and it made things a lot clearer as far as what was effective. IMO, I would not do Atopica until I tried allergy shots combined with antihistimines and low dose prednisone if needed while the allergy serum was building up, OR just limiting exposure, cleaning, antihistamines, occassional prednisone, baths,etc - all the 'non-invasive stuff'. OR just go straight to holistic and try that avenue if you want to 'try' to avoid meds. But to do some of each area is going to be too hard to determine what is helping.

When I saw that Lori had posted, it reminded me to stress as hard as I possibly can: KEEP A JOURNAL.

I know that there is no allergy-experienced (or IBS/IBD, or any chronic condition with a wide array of tools for it that are highly individual) owner who will not support this: that journal is going to be a real blessing, and if you don't do it, you'll kick yourself.

It is NOT possible to see patterns in what is working and when and why without it.

Make it very simple (IMO), because daily is a lot better than fancy. If you need to log onto a spreadsheet, it's going to be blank. If it's a piece of lined paper on the fridge, or a calendar with great big squares for writing, or a tiny notebook always in your pocket .... then you will actually do it. Any daily info beats a fancy notebook with no writing.

I know I sound like I'm rambling on and on, but the daily journal of weather, including wind, plus meds, maybe food, and a scale (like 1 to 10) of scratching, etc., is how I identified every single one of the most important factors in the treatment and management of my atopic dogs.

It's also how I identified a couple of allergens without scratch tests.

It's crucial.

I can testify to the 'kicking yourself' part.

 Quote: Lori Hall

I can testify to the 'kicking yourself' part.

You and everyone else until they learn about it!

This is one TINY example: my journal alerted me (after weeks, I finally saw the pattern), that my atopic dog's worst airborne springtime allergens were at their most active at sunup and sundown (when there is always a breeze here). I was able to eliminate a load of misery by shutting all the windows and keeping him inside at those times, plus 45 minutes on each side.

The fact that he benefits from probiotics was journal-proved, and would otherwise have been lost in my allergy-detail-filled brain.

It was critical in trialing antihistamines.

Just a couple of examples.

The biggest thing is that patterns emerge that you can't see day by day, but that pop out in writing, when you have day after day noted. The sunup and sundown thing .... I wasn't even looking for that! But with accumulated notes like "Leo woke me up, scratching so hard," and "Had to leave BBQ 7 pm; Leo miserable" .... my brain finally "boinged."

So I checked the local weather site and pollen reports, but really, I had what I needed without even doing that: for Leo, sunup and sundown were bad in June.

My management list is similar to Lori's. It varies in certain months (more rinse-baths in June and October, for example).

With all these tools. I have become able to limit the Pred to maybe 15 days of the year, low dose, to break a cycle in his worst seasons.

Management is sometimes underrated.

He has no more skin or ear infections and almost never any interrupted sleep from itching. He has quality of life.

Ear infections - got them all the time until we started the list of things I mentioned. Haven't had one in 3 1/2 years - the derma vet said Kasey is one of only a few patients of hers that don't get them all the time. It's due to maintenance/prevention. I didn't know that ears are affected by allergies because they are a continuation of skin! It's things like this you just don't learn from a regular vet!