Quote:

Originally posted by Lee Baragona - Sch3FH2:
What about the totally opposite option, instead of fleeing, what if all the GSD folks in USA joined WDA and basically took it over??

Lee, that's an idea, but how would one go about convincing so many people to do a mass shift into the WDA and making the changes? Granted, it wouldn't be something that would happen fast, as all changes take time, especially with large entities.

But, if WDA is going to be the "big dog", wouldn't it be best if all the people serious about the breed got involved with them and helped guide them? I honestly think Lee might be on to something here, it's just a matter of how to get it going.

Re AKC working dog involvements: (source: Feb 03 AKC Board meeting minutes)
Carmen Battaglia announced that the AKC is sponsoring an International Working Dog Breeders Conference on April 27-29 at Lackland Air force Base in San Antonio, Texas. This is an effort to link information sharing world wide from scientists to breeders. The conference is open to breeders and more information can be obtained at http://www.iwdba.org.

(source: iwdba web site)
Due to current military environments, the date has been moved to Sept 21-24, 2003.
“The good news is that we have received major financial support from the American Kennel Club and AKC Companion Animal Recovery, which will help greatly in producing a superior program.”

Re WDA use of SV judges: (source: GSDCA-WDA web site)
“The 2003 National Schutzhund Championship/WUSV Qualifying Trial will be hosted by the Metro Atlanta Schutzhund Club, April 11-13 in Senoia, GA. Tracking will be judged by Dieter Schmale (SV judge), Obedience by David Landau (SV Foreign judge), and Protection by Rolf Blume (SV judge).”

Re problem with available helpers: (source: WDA web site)
http://www.gsdca-wda.org/triahelper.htm

Re Breed surveys: (source: WDA web site
Based upon current policies of the SV, the GSDCA-WDA Board of Directors adopted the following rules and guidelines on July 28, 2002 amended January 26, 2003
http://www.gsdca-wda.org/breedsurvey.htm

Breed Survey comments (source: online gsdca-wda newsletter – excerpt “letter from the president&rdquo
“This area gives me concern and "heartburn". The GSDCA-WDA Clubs throughout America conducted several Breed Surveys in the year 2002. I regret to inform you that not one club has 100% successfully completed and submitted the correct documentation to the GSDCA-WDA as specified by the Breed Survey Guidelines posted on the website, http://www.gsdca-wda.org. This has caused delays and numerous phone calls to Europe resulting in an increased cost to the GSDCA-WDA. I believe this problem is a GSDCA-WDA problem in as much as we publish guidelines but fail to teach the system. Therefore, I will institute a Breed Survey Seminar which the trial secretary and/or a designated person from each member dub will be required to attend before holding a breed survey. It is my intention to hold such an event at the 2003 National Championship held in Atlanta this year. I respectfully request that any clubs that have previously scheduled Breed Surveys before this date to contact me so that I may help clear up any issues of concern before their event. I thank you in advance concerning this issue.”

Next Issue GSDCA-WDA Newsletter:
--AKC update on Working Dog Sport
--New Helper teaching and certification program development guidelines
--Breed survey seminar update

The elephant is moving, albeit slowly...(money is a great motivator)

Thanks Ann for the links.

As all can see, it is already happening.

Ignore your people & they will go away. The upstart working dog organizations are taking hold and the biggest (USA and DVG) will see a day where they are not the most influential for the standards of the working dog here in America.

"Hard heads make a soft -ss" was a saying my German grandfather use to have. Unless USA and DVG can bring the 'common' folk into the fold without scaring the hell out of them in seminars with their grandstanding tributes to them selves and focus more on the quality of the animal.

The only way to stay the best is to be the best I think. It is not too late for people to chalk up standards or at least hold true to them.

Quality will be the determining factor on the battleground for the future working dogs in America or at least should be.

If AKC is smart, they will bring in SV judges and other international breed authorities in and cement the pathway.

Either way, former posting are correct as far as LE needs go. While we all know the standards for the street patrol dog needs to be high. The LE dogs have many substandard dogs working the street as well. Organizations that pss or fail dogs or allow immediate retesting until pass scores are obtained is unacceptable yet practiced in many certifying agencies.

I will concede a dog maybe “off” from one day to the next but off dogs should mean he did not get top scores not mean he could not qualify on first run.

It is ok not to have the best dog on the field it is not ok to not want the best.

While I love the GSD breed, I could care less about confirmation standards or who sets them as long as they help and not hurt the working ability of the breed.

I care about the health, working temperament, working brains and ability above all else. The standards adopted by most breeders here is one of general appearance. The show dog is collectable and easy.

Making some pretty damn ugly “dashboard shepherds” if you ask me.

While GSDCA has had a large hand in this, it is has been AKC's general effort to get memberships in their registry that was the bullet.

Find me a GSDCA board member who does not register their dogs with the AKC. Hand slaps and hand shakes and it has always been thus.

While exhibition of temperament and style are considered in shows this is really lip service to most of us who look far and wide for good dogs at a workable price, while "papered" dogs overflow the classified ads everywhere.

I got to think Max would say, "What the hell have they done to my dog?"

 Quote:

Originally posted by Michael Talyor Rivers:
The facts are that the AKC maybe be the big dog on the block in the near future. If this does happen, it will leave USA and the AWDF with thier thumbs you know where. Like it or not this seems to be the direction that we are going in.

Could be, but not necessarily. My understanding is that when AKC entered competitive agility, they didn't hurt USDAA & NADAC... who are still the two "big dogs on the block" in agility.

I imagine that a lot of folks who are serious about schutzhund and working dogs are not going to want to do SchH in an organization that will likely just turn around and ban SchH several years down the road... as they've done in the past. The majority of people in AKC are ignorant of, and hostile toward, protection sports. Why would anyone trust AKC to maintain a commitment to a protection sport?

Laura Sanborn

Dennis wrote: ""Hard heads make a soft -ss" was a saying my German grandfather use to have. Unless USA and DVG can bring the 'common' folk into the fold without scaring the hell out of them in seminars with their grandstanding tributes to them selves and focus more on the quality of the animal."

I don't understand this at all, can you explain?
I also don't understand the last comment from this post either.

I don't see this affecting the DVG at all, and the DVG is a working dog organization not a breed organization.

Dennis do you, or have you, belonged to a club?

Apparently you don't do agility; I do. AKC IS the big dog in Agility. NADAC is tiny compared to AKC, and USDAA is still going strong, but it's AKC who chooses the world championship team, not USDAA.

Hard heads make a soft ass = Blind stubbornness that hold a person in position makes an easy target – Don’t feel bad VC, I had to ask him too. J

I also don't understand the last comment from this post either.

VC – “I don't see this affecting the DVG at all, and the DVG is a working dog organization not a breed organization.”

This is my point. - From what I have seen and read and experienced, many schutzhund folks have the opinion they cannot be affected by another organization or forming organization. The new working dog organizations because of their size seem ineffectual. They have hard heads (stubborn and have avoidance to the issues that potentially threaten them) as I guess most organizations do.

The point is both organizations are still at the top by I can hardly think they are thriving given the defections over the last 10 years.

To further answer your question.

I am working with a small group of people. They are now deciding the working club affiliations and leaning toward dual membership I think. The biggest problem has been gathering people interested in the sport who have a GSD or other working breed and getting them excited enough o dedicate them selves to the task of working. As far as I know none have ever even trained a dog before let alone a Dog to title.

It started out as a dedicated group of people who simply wanted to train their dog and enhance the relationship they have with them. The bane of the club has been politics both within the club and dealing with or the lack of dealing with organizational efforts to see the club off on the right foot.

From the very beginning I have separated my training business from this forming Schutzhund club thinking it is up to them to decide their direction. I have tried to work with some of the Schutzhund enthusiast in the past not only when working with Tom Rose and the St. Louis clubs but in Iowa and visiting other states and observing thier clubs and dogs. (I admit this was 7-8 years back.)

Back then, I found trainers and even the judges unable to demonstrate to me why I should bother training with them. Their general methods and attitudes toward other people and methods seemed narrow. Their dogs were show as poster dog's for what a good dog should be and all I could see was dogs that needed a lot of work. Saying to myself…”These people are the leaders and cream of the crop?”

Not being one to care if they were dog Training God's or idiots and knowing my clients kept me busy most of the year, I stepped away from the whole cesspool of dysfunctional politics that seemed tied to schutzhund or at least the people I would be forced to negotiate and compromise my standards with. At 23 I knew I was not going to change their minds or ideas about training.

And thought to myself I started training my farm dogs and pets when I was a boy because I love dogs, their relationship to us and what they are able to do with their abilities. I am not overly interested in winning ribbons as much as I am into saving lives with dogs. I still believe in dong the best you can however and I have nothing against sport dogs in fact I am trilled to enhance any good dog and its breed if I can contribute. I think schutzhund is a great way to do this.

I will gain more satisfaction training some good trainers seeing them win. I wont rule out competing in the near future. Certainly this club as long as they build can have a role to play and do well at it. The low-drive dogs they learned with are now being replaced by decent working prospect puppies and though they struggled for a long time with low drive dogs the experience of working these dogs has given them a better understanding of training dogs and working with drives in general. Only time will tell how it all pans out. Though I am their trainer I do not officially belong to this club.

For my last comment: I don’t think Max Von Stephanitz would be happy to know that most GSD owners in this country produces nothing close to what he intended the GSD to be.