I don't think this dog suits what Bounette is looking for at all. I don't believe she is looking for a major training project. She wants a companion dog for her kids,not one that she's going to have to keep separated at all times.

In her defense - despite some mistakes on her part - is that she is willing to come here and seek help and advise.

There will be many people who would have just dump the dog at a shelter, tied it outdoors and ignore it, or beat the living daylights out of the poor animal.

It is a brave thing to do, to seek help for a troubled animal because the first thing most people would do is to point fingers at the handler and be on the offensive. What human would not feel cornered eventually? What human or animal would allow accusations to keep on coming? It is a fight or flight response, and she certainly did not choose to run. And not only that, she honestly stated her issues although she probably knows it would only lead to more flaming.

So be more patient ... take a breath, think and realize nobody is free from erring. What makes us better is to improve ourselves and that means setting aside personal differences and principles, and helping those who want to be help.

While I disagree with some of her methods in THIS thread (I do not know her past history, and I do not care to know ... it is in the past) I will give her props for hanging in there.

well Thank you Rei Chee,,, sounds to me you are a person of great wisdom....and uhhhhh...no i'm not biased.lol

Edited by Bounette White (06/19/2008 01:25 PM)
Edit reason: misspell

After everything I've read, I think Bounette wants a dog that DOESN'T exist.
She wants a dog that doesn't cost much, doesn't require supervision and training, doesn't require groundwork...

Basically, Bounette wants a dog that she can bring in the house, that will be cute, play wonderfully with the kids, behave perfectly, and never need training or correction or even basic pack structure groundwork.

Bounette doesn't want to have to supervise or tether the dog for any extended duration. She can't seem to locate a trainer who will return her calls. She's gone through a few dogs now.

Bounette- I don't doubt that you love dogs, but at some point, you have to consider whether or not what you are doing is kind to the dog.

Bringing a dog into the home takes a LOT of work. And that work NEVER stops.
You argue and question the advice you are given. When you don't get the response you want, you act incredulous and insist that we are picking on you, being rude or using scare tactics.

You are consistantly picking the WRONG dog for a family with children, and a completely inexperienced dog handler.

You are consistantly making the same exact mistakes with the dogs, within DAYS of bringing it into the home.

Having a dog takes a LOT more than love.
Dogs deserve more than what you have to offer them.

I really suggest taking this dog back to it's former owner.
Then, I suggest purchasing Ed's Pack Structure DVD and reading every SINGLE article on the site. Put extra emphasis on the Pack Structure articles, Aggressive Dog articles, Dogs and Kids articles- AND Puppy Selection articles.
After you've done that, I suggest you discuss every SINGLE thing you have learned here on the site, until you understand the WHY and HOW of everything you read and saw on the DVD.
I suggest you go down to your local library and check out any and every book you can on wolves, esp. wolf pack structure and psychology.

THEN, you need to research dog breeds. Look at breed standards for the different breeds, particularly temperment standards. I would strong advise you to avoid the working breeds, eg, GSDs, Malinois, Rottweilers, etc. Stick more to the retreiver and sporting group breeds. Seriously research these breeds. The internet CAN be a good source, but as you've said yourself, it can sometimes be difficult to separate opinion from fact. Talk to breeders (on the phone or via email- don't go look at a single puppy/dog, during this phase).

Once you done ALL of those things, evaluate WHY you want a dog.
Look at your schedule and life and decide whether or not you have the time, and money for a dog. Decide whether or not you can afford thorough obediance training, on top of vet bills, feeding bills, and other misc. expenses.

THEN, having spent all of this time on research, learning, education... THEN start looking at puppies/dogs. Keep in mind the Puppy Selecion information. I would strongly suggest printing the articles and taking them with you when you go to look at dogs.

If you can't commit to all those steps, then IMO, you have no business owning a dog.

 Quote: steve strom

I don't think this dog suits what Bounette is looking for at all. I don't believe she is looking for a major training project. She wants a companion dog for her kids,not one that she's going to have to keep separated at all times.

you are right in one thing you said,,, i am looking for a family pet that i will not have to keep seperated and monitored for every sec. but i would also like that family pet to be high drive so that i can do lots of obed with him. it's my dream to be able to have the time and money to get into schu obedience one day.
i am so evious of you all who have that opportunity. o i figure i can start small. great family pet ,,, that offers the great ball or food drive to allow for us to grow and learn together about some great obedience training.

Bounette, satisfy yourself with a dog thats not high-drive for the time being. Dogs like that thrive on structure and clear rules that I don't really think you are ready to live with. You can find a dog that can be a safe companion with your kids but you are going to need to find someone to help. We have an English Setter that is perfect with kids, just what you would want and we got her at seven yrs. She heels, sits and downs all for my daughter but just looks at me with a blank stare. My daughter is learning how to raise a dog and I'm happy with it. Put more effort into finding one instead of something someones just trying to give away.

 Quote: Bounette White

you are right in one thing you said,,, i am looking for a family pet that i will not have to keep seperated and monitored for every sec.

it's my dream to be able to have the time and money to get into schu obedience one day.

I'll say it again.

You want a dog that DOESN'T exist.

Bringing a dog into the home takes a LOT of work. And that work NEVER stops.

You are consistantly picking the WRONG dog for a family with children, and a completely inexperienced dog handler.

You are consistantly making the same exact mistakes with the dogs, within DAYS of bringing it into the home.

Take the dog back.


Read every single article on the site.

Research dog breeds.

You have ZERO business ever EVER getting into a sport that includes bitework. Thankfully, neither you, nor any dog you own, will EVER pass a temperment test, and no respectable club will allow you on their premesis, let alone permit you to train with them.

If you can't afford to train your dog in Schutzhund, how can you afford the other expenses of a dog?

You need to read my post (#199331), and take it to heart.

What you are doing to these dogs is cruel, and what you are doing to your children is child endangerment.

Ouch..

Oi. Are there are some angry people out there. O_o

Sometimes the most regressive thing to do is to go on the offensive. As most of us have experienced in our lives, anger defeats any purpose for improvement or change.

Chill, people. Your anger clouds your eyes and judgment.

As she has said, it is a dream of hers to get into the sport of SchH only when she can afford both the time and finances. But it does not mean she is definitely getting into it.

Who knows? She might be ready in a few years. Who are we to judge - her or anybody, for that matter?


Right?

Edited by Rei Chee (06/19/2008 03:07 PM)
Edit reason: grammar