Quote: Kelly

Ok, here I am a little late to the game- as usual. I am confused by a couple of things.

Caitlin, you say you like a dog with a big head- but you like the Mal and Dutchie- can't get a head much more skinny than one found on a Mal or a Dutchie....

You are ruling out great breeds of dogs that are capable of doing the work that you will be doing with your dog, based on the size of it's head....because you say you are "picky"

Yet, you are willing to get a pup from a breed well known for HD from a breeder that doesn't test for HD in the breeding stock. And the work you want to do with the dog relies HEAVILY on healthy and sound hips... Oy...

You have never met a Dogo, have never handled one, so how do you honestly know it's the dog for you? Personally, I've met a few and am not a fan. I wasn't impressed with the quality of work the dogs did, nor was I impressed with the temperaments.

Your experience is with a Lab- who is now a senior so I am assuming that you grew up with him... and that the bulk of his training fell to your parents. A Dogo is not a dog for a "first time" dog owner- which you will be, like it or not. You will not have the experience to deal with aggression- which this breed is VERY well known for...

You like the Mal and the Dutchie as well but say you can't afford them- there are TONS of these dogs in shelters and rescues all over the US. They are busting at the seams in Miami from all the Mals down there- many of which are actually well bred- the owners can't handle the energy so they dump them in shelters. Kelly Byrd here on the board has a Dutchie from a rescue and is currently doing Schutzhund with him.

You are 17- while you don't want your age to factor into this in any way, but it has to... you gain experience and wisdom with age. It's not meant as a slam- when I was 17 I was competeing in National Level Cross Country with my horse and the "veteran" riders didn't show any respect to me- so I know how you feel. The difference is that I actually had experience....

I wish you luck, but this thread has me cringing on the inside...

--Kelly

Kelly, I confuse myself. One minute I say I don't care if the dog friendly like a Lab yet I would take a DS which is about the same size body and head of a GSP, after realizing what I said I think I have a thing for "protective" breeds. I still like nice breeds but I think I lean towards protective breeds. I really do like the DS though, think of Bor van Leeuwen, larger than normal blocky stocky DS's. I am into the type of sports and stuff Mal's and DS's excel in, protection. Can I afford $75 a class twice a week for many months + club fees, No. Since I prefer larger Ds's/Mal's and most Show/Agility ones are 70 pounds I decided I did not want one. A large size dog is important to me.

I never think about buying from a breeder that doesn't check for HD. With the Dogo it's not that simple when you are looking for a specific kind of Dogo. I have looked many times on many sites and the only breeders that have 90-95 pound Dogo's are working breeders, and working breeders don't check for HD. Every single breeder that checks for HD all have 110lb+ Dogo Argentino's which are too heavy for me. I don't want to get a Large Dogo then have it be too lazy to exercise but I don't want one from a breeder that doesn't check hips and have it sit on the couch and pay for its hip surgery either! So I look around at other breeds. Gosh darnit there aren't any. The only other breed that appeals to me is a rescue APBT which is about 10 pounds smaller than what I like, but I just have to search for larger ones. You see I want a dog that can do everything and it is really hard to find that. I'm still going with a Dogo but I will have to keep him lean.

We actually rescued Gunner when he was 3. My parents have never walked, trained, bathed, cleaned his ears, or exercised him. Until I all of the sudden starting becoming very intereste in dogs about 2 years ago. I do all of it. Gunner is hungry? "CAITLIN FEED YOUR DOG!!!!" Even if they are right next to the door and I am all the way in my room reading stuff. Yet I EXPLICITY told my parents I did NOT want a Lab, at that time i wanted a Australian Shepherd which would have been a great first dog for me. She never even told my Dad we were getting a dog she just came home with him one day!!! Gunner is closest to me and knows if he needs to be fed or wants to play he needs to come to me becaue I am "his person". He has a short attention span and he can't stand training over 15 mintues yet at 14 years old I did it all myself just going off common sense. He has turned out to be a great dog, becasue of me. And if I was not here Gunner to make him a good dog he would be longgg gone. My parents WANT me to take him when I leave becasue they know I am a better owner. I want to train and exericse way more often with him but at his age he takes things super slow, steady, and short.

I WANT to get experience I have for an entire year. "Dad can we PLEASE go to this dog training club just 30 minutes away?! No." "There is this Rhodesian Ridegback breeder not too far away can we go check it out? No" "Can I volenteer at the shelter/Vet? No" Hey neighbors can I walk your dog and train it? NO." You see I can't get experience until I turn 18 next year get my car and a job. I wanted to ride horses too, oh man did I love to ride some horses. I begged my parents but they never let me take any classes. I never get to learn or experience things. But let me tell you if I could I really would.

I have thought about a rescue DS or Mal. I assumed becasue of my lack of owning a dominiant dog they would never even take a second look at my adoption application. Ironically it is easier to buy from a good breeder than resuce.

Without being able to get out and actually experience the breed that you are intent on, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. There are things you can learn by reading stuff and watching clips on Youtube, but it's not reality.

I was reading something on the internet about Mals. All the way through the article, I was thinking "are they seriously talking about a Malinois?" Take what you read with a grain of salt-

When you get your car, get out and experience "dog" stuff- see different breeds working, talk to breeders at shows, meet their dogs. Don't set your heart on a certain breed that you've never met in person and only "know" through articles and Youtube clips.

I am a firm believer that the dog picks the person. I have never gone out and looked for a dog- yet I have a pack of 5. They found me in their own ways....

If you are meant to have a Dogo, Fate will take care of it. But go out and experience other breeds, before you set your mind, heart, and soul on one. From my own experiences with the Dogo, I fear you will be sadly dissappointed with the breed....

 Quote: Kelly

Without being able to get out and actually experience the breed that you are intent on, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. There are things you can learn by reading stuff and watching clips on Youtube, but it's not reality.

I was reading something on the internet about Mals. All the way through the article, I was thinking "are they seriously talking about a Maliniois?" Take what you read with a grain of salt-

When you get your car, get out and experience "dog" stuff- see different breeds working, talk to breeders at shows, meet their dogs. Don't set your heart on a certain breed that you've never met in person and only "know" through articles and Youtube clips.

I am a firm believer that the dog picks the person. I have never gone out and looked for a dog- yet I have a pack of 5. They found me in their own ways....

If you are meant to have a Dogo, Fate will take care of it. But go out and experience other breeds, before you set your mind, heart, and soul on one. From my own experiences with the Dogo, I fear you will be sadly dissappointed with the breed....

Thanks I know anything could happen. While visiting dogs I might wind up liking Border Collies, unlikely but you get my point. The Dogo is my fav breed, so far, but when it comes time to meet them that might change. I really hope I am not dissapointed with this breed. Can you tell me what kind of Dogos, males females working showing, you met and other things?

 Quote: Caitlin Beaumont

"Actually there are alot of good breeders in the USA, Working and show."

Have you ever seen a dogo do protection? That Dogo on Dogs 101 is personal protection trained.

Here is my first question - are those dogs from the "working lines" titled in any venue? If you could provide links to those that are, I'd love to take a look at them!

Next, I've both seen and decoyed Dogos in PP work - and *every* one of them that I worked ran off the field. None of them could face a determined prep by my estimate, but they'll engage a sleeve if they know the decoy - and that action fools a lot of prospective buyers that haven't done their homework.

I think that these dogs would be ok as a general ranch dog, but I don't see much more utility in them. The average Rottie would beat an average Dogo, it'd be cheaper and would likely come with health guarantees that no Dogo breeder would offer. There are plenty of Rotties with titles to prove their working ability, and I don't think that you'll find that in the Dogo world.

And one more thing ( and I'm not trying to steer you towards a Rottie only ), although I haven't had a Rottie for over 15 years, my last one lived to 15 years 3 months and was the most titled dog that I've ever owned.

There is a girl on the BB boards that does some man work with her BB, Tashi at Dichotomy Boerboels, but I believe she also does a lot of work with GSD???

My 2 would love the opportunity to play with someone they knew in a suit, because they would have permission to go nuts, and given their sheer size and weight, it isn't something we encourage

My own take on Mastiffs, (specifically my own breed) in protection is for my needs, the 2 of them hurling themselves st the window when a stranger comes close to the house, is enough to deter the average chancer, and their M.O. is to charge and shove, I think they would be mouthy but I couldn't say they would bite, and hang on...

They were bred originally to protect livestock against wild animals in SA, plus guard the family and property, they are pretty fearless, and could floor you from the back, a bit like bringing prey down, but I always associate dogs like the GSD, Dobe, Rott and Malinois with the Police and military when it comes to protection and getting stuck in.

As an impressive and formidable guard dog, Mastiffs do the job, but as a working protection dog, I wouldn't necessarily say they would be the first breed that comes to mind.

What are your plans for a job or career?

A high school diploma and nothing else is going to severly limit your choices--and your ability to do the things you say you want to do.

Owning dogs and training them isn't cheap. As you've already seen, classes and clubs cost real money--and those are dog "luxuries." Vet care, meds, food, etc. Are also expensive, even more for big dogs.

I'd simply encourage you to think about some kind of career path while you're making plans. Since you have an aptitude for dogs, have you considered a training school, or vet tech training or?

The choices you make now will have a lifetime impact on your earning potential. I'm not saying everybody needs a college degree. But the kind of service industry job most high school grads can look forward to will lead to a grinding treadmill of paycheck to paycheck existence--with little left over for any kind of extracurricular passion, whether it's dogs, travel, or you name it.

At 17, I know it's hard to envision your future self at age 30 or 40--with bills, insurance premiums, taxes, rent or mortgage...or even children to raise.

But along with thinking about this dog, I'd challeng you to think about the whole picture of what kind of life you want to have as an adult--does it include training classes and travel to dog trials? If so, figure out how to get there, because you can do anything you want--you just have to have a realistic plan. Working at Wendy's is not going to allow you that.

If you are truly doing actual research on other dog breeds, and talking to real true betterment of the breed dog breeders, you would not make blanket statements that ALL rotties die of osteosarcoma by age 6. And before you get any breed of dog, give some consideration to "why" so many dogs are dying of cancer. Think about whether you can afford to feed good quality food, or crap food. Think about what you believe about vaccinations, and whether you are willing to douse them with chemicals to control fleas and ticks. A necessary evil sometimes, but think about all the things that can and do cause cancer, instead of only the breed. SOme breeds are more prone, but it is not the only thing out there that will cause suffering for the dog and large doses of money for the owner.

I made the mistake of getting my first dog by what I "thought" the breed was. I had met a couple. I thought I knew. I got a rottie as my first real dog as an adult. And yes I had the lab growing up, not the same dog. We survived her, loved her terribly, managed what we didn't know how to control or fix, and gave her a nice spoiled life. We were lucky, and commited to her. it was not a good first dog. I would never have given her up, or dumped her at the pound. I made a lifetime commitment to her.

Age aside, can you commit to being able to house, insure, feed well, care for well, afford horrendous vet bills if needed, have the capabilities to deal with the worst behaviorally if it happens, give that dog everything it needs for its lifetime? if you can, and you get out there and meet a lot of them, handle them, and they are for you, I wish you the very best. if not, give real thought and consideration to another dog who meets your needs.

I now have my second rottie, more experienced than I was with the first, but a working breed like them are tough, and I still struggle with some things, and need help from this board. These people know what they are talking about when it comes to working dogs, and their temperments and mentalities, and collectively have the experience to back up their opinions. Their concern is for the dogs life also, along with yours. Trust me that a dog whose life has to be managed is not near what it should or could be. Think very very carefully about everything that people have said here before you make your choice, and make sure that you have the money to care for anything that comes up in the dogs life. The dog and you both deserve that.

 Quote: Will Rambeau

And one more thing ( and I'm not trying to steer you towards a Rottie only ), although I haven't had a Rottie for over 15 years, my last one lived to 15 years 3 months and was the most titled dog that I've ever owned.

No I like Rotties, but they are breeding them too heavy or at least the ones Ive seen. Unlike the Dogo there are no "light weight" breeds that I have been able to find. That is the only thing holding me back, now that I know basically the cancer thing is an epidemic in all large dog breeds right now.

 Quote: Will Rambeau

 Quote: Caitlin Beaumont

"Actually there are alot of good breeders in the USA, Working and show."

Have you ever seen a dogo do protection? That Dogo on Dogs 101 is personal protection trained.

Here is my first question - are those dogs from the "working lines" titled in any venue? If you could provide links to those that are, I'd love to take a look at them!

Next, I've both seen and decoyed Dogos in PP work - and *every* one of them that I worked ran off the field. None of them could face a determined prep by my estimate, but they'll engage a sleeve if they know the decoy - and that action fools a lot of prospective buyers that haven't done their homework.

I think that these dogs would be ok as a general ranch dog, but I don't see much more utility in them. The average Rottie would beat an average Dogo, it'd be cheaper and would likely come with health guarantees that no Dogo breeder would offer. There are plenty of Rotties with titles to prove their working ability, and I don't think that you'll find that in the Dogo world.

I don't know much about titles, so I cannot answer that question. Those working Dogos do hunting (boar and puma), when I say working I don't always mean protection. I am not "fooled" that if I see a video of a dog that they are a good protection dog. I already know this. If I was to get a working dog specifically for protection, and some other things, I would HAVE to visit the kennel to test the puppies and pick the best one. I have heard many times of people asking for a pup with stable nerves and high drives and the dog is scared of its own shadow. But just because a dog has a ton of titles doesn't mean they are good either! I have heard of people who rush dogs through training, or do it horribly, yet they are still "passed".