Hi Geri,

I use Chlortrimeton generic - 4 tabs twice a day

Wow! Three baths a week! With a 105lb dog! I would go nuts trying to accomplish that! Our derma vet recommended once a week (we just use a good hypoallergenic shampoo - I've tried the conditioner but it didn't seem to help Kasey). But even then we sometimes don't it done that often - probably every 10 days is our average. But we do wash off paws and under his belly frequently.

I love the Douxo pads, and I know Connie uses those too. They are not cheap, so I looked online and they also have a spray. I'm going to try that next time.

I use Frontline every 3 weeks in the summer. Our vet said they last about that long, so we decided on that over every 2 - but if you have a lot of fleas where you are, I'd probably do it every 2. Ugh

As far as the steroid, that dose sounds good for a 105lb dog. Just to make you feel better about that, my derma vet explained to me that the dose they use for itching is not a 'therapeutic' dose - in other words, it's not the amount they would give if they were using it for reducing inflammation for a disease. That dose is much higher than the dose used for itching. So when you hear the stories about how bad steroids are for the body, remember that they are usually talking about the therapeutic size dose. Even with that said, we still do a blood test on Kasey every 6 months to monitor his liver and everything. He has been getting low dose steroid when needed for 5 years now and his blood work is perfect.

If I understand what you said about the findings, you are saying that there is no yeast anywhere, but there is bacteria between the pads of the feet? If so, that can cause itching for the dog, and they will chew at the feet more - and that usually gets yeast going too. I would probably use the chlorhexidine every day for a week or two, then go to every other day. You could wash the paws every day, and not do the baths quite so often.

It sounds like a very good plan. Glad you are going to try the shots - I'm sure she explained that it can take months to see positive results from those? Kasey did not have any side effects from them at all. The vet is having you start out with a diluted vial first, and then work up to full strength, right?

Regarding the diet, I would be very tempted to just go raw and wait on the elimination diet. If you start the shots AND do the elimination diet at the same time, you won't know which one is helping. Since you have at least a 90% chance that it's not food, it isn't much of a risk - especially with where the dog is itching. When it's food, they itch in different places, like the mouth area. Your dog is classic environmental and flea.

If you do raw (I thought you had mentioned wanting to do raw? could have been someone else!!), and use fish oil and probiotics, you are really going to boost the immune system and that will help a lot! Kasey's skin and coat look amazing for an allergy dog.

Let me know if there's anything else you wanted comments on, I may have missed something. And definitely be writing in the journal when you start the shots! Dont look for 100% improvement since he's allergic to many things - you are just looking for enough improvement that he's comfortable most of the time, then you can use the steroid for breaking an occassional bad cycle. But you will probably have to use it a little more often until the shots start helping - we use one dose every third day during bad times.

bump

(I want to remember to describe my simplified atopic-dog-bath methods.)

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

bump

(I want to remember to describe my simplified atopic-dog-bath methods.)

Reading this guy's book:

http://www.amazon.com/Allergy-Solution-Dogs-Conventional-Discomfort/dp/0761526722

and here's the bathing excerpt:

http://www.petcarenaturally.com/book_allergy_solution.php


made me have a big lightbulb moment. This was where I first understood the error in limiting baths for an allergic dog "so their skin doesn't dry out" and how important it is to get the pollen and other allergens off the dog so he's not absorbing (and breathing them in) 24/7 from his own skin and fur (and/or blanket or carpet or bed, etc.).

He was also the source of my pan of clean water that my atopic dog walks through to rinse grass and pollen, etc., off his paws on the way inside (with careful patting dry, always ..... I don't want a damp yeast-friendly environment between the toes!).

I've learned more after this book, but this book was a major help to me.

So, baths: Full-on baths are important, but are not the only possible baths. As Lori said, I often wash the undercarriage and legs on the way in.

I also do a rinse-bath in warm weather (which happens to be the worst allergy time of year for my dog anyway) by standing him on the cement walkway around the house and pouring water over him with a bowl from a 5-gallon bucket of clean water (fresh, not sitting in the breeze to sun-warm, but maybe with a little hot faucet water added so it's not icy). I splash it upwards onto his belly and I make sure I get his creases (armpits, leg-pits, under tail).


I use hypoallergenic baby wipes often, one swipe of it over an area so I'm not dragging pollen around on him). I use the Douxo pads.

For full-on baths, which I do as often as possible, he stands in the tub and gets water poured over him thoroughly, including splashed upwards on his belly and pits after he's shampooed. That is, he does not stand in bath-water that is now full of debris that was on his coat. The rinsing is crucial.

So .... maybe I'm missing some, but I'll keep thinking. I just want to make the point that keeping the dog's surface as allergen-free as possible so he's not absorbing them through his skin and inhaling them from his own furry allergen-magnet-body has several levels. That is, if I cannot bathe him, I can, for example, use wipes and a paw-bath.




PS

Baths are just one management tool, though, albeit an important one. I don't want to divert too much attention from Lori's post above; it encompasses MANY excellent management points.

I wanted to add that a board member (I wish I could remember who it was!) gives her atopic GSD this, in tablet form:

http://leerburg.com/73.htm

and has commented on the benefits she saw.

While I have not yet used it, I have looked up the ingredients and found intriguing info about them. For example, I found about Radix Scutellariae that the baicalin in Scutellariae is an anti-inflammatory: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162310900002447

and that other compounds in Scutellariae inhibit histamine production (histamine, of course, is a chemical produced during an allergic response that triggers such symptoms as itching):
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S037887410200257X




eta
As I looked up each ingredient online, I found their beneficial qualities explained in "Western" language that I admit was easier for me to grasp than more Eastern descriptors like "drains fire."

Of course, "drains fire" is a perfectly lucid way to describe "anti-inflammation action."

Edited by Connie Sutherland (07/14/2012 06:23 PM)
Edit reason: eta

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I wanted to add that a board member (I wish I could remember who it was!) gives her atopic GSD this, in tablet form:

http://leerburg.com/73.htm

and has commented on the benefits she saw.

While I have not yet used it, I have looked up the ingredients and found intriguing info about them. For example, I found about Radix Scutellariae that the baicalin in Scutellariae is an anti-inflammatory: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162310900002447

and that other compounds in Scutellariae inhibit histamine production (histamine, of course, is a chemical produced during an allergic response that triggers such symptoms as itching):
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S037887410200257X




eta
As I looked up each ingredient online, I found their beneficial qualities explained in "Western" language that I admit was easier for me to grasp than more Eastern descriptors like "drains fire."

Of course, "drains fire" is a perfectly lucid way to describe "anti-inflammation action."

Connie, I know Mike Armstrong swore by this stuff for a long time - don't know if he still uses it. In fact, I sent him my unused portion because, believe it or not, Kasey was allergic to something in it! I started using it and the itching got super intense! I couldn't figure out what was going on at first, and then we realized it got worse after starting this. Since he's allergic to so many plants, I called the company that makes this and they actually had the vet who formulated it call me! She said it's rare, but that it's possible a dog could be allergic to one of the herbs in the mix. So I stopped using it, and the itching went back to it's normal level!

Oh, you're right: Mike Armstrong uses it, and finds it very beneficial. And someone else .... a woman .... it'll come to me.

Yes, of course, you're right: an individual can be allergic to something in a med. (Oh, the irony, when it's an allergy med!)

That was great that the Herbsmith vet called you back and was forthcoming. That's a good sign in a manufacturer.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I wanted to add that a board member (I wish I could remember who it was!) gives her atopic GSD this, in tablet form:

http://leerburg.com/73.htm

Connie- I think Joyce has used this. Maybe she will pop on and see this thread.

I have used Clear AllerQi, back several years back but didn't stick with it.
Then again recently, but seemed to think I too saw an increase of itching, and stopped. But to be fair, I did not use it for an extended period as this is supposed to be given for 6-8 weeks before results are seen.
Just like Lori's Kasey, my female has some bad inhalant allergies.
I keep trying different things, hoping to find what can help.

I have used with good success, Animal Essentials, Detox Blend tincture.
Given twice a day for 7 days, saw a marked decrease in itching.
http://www.animalessentials.com/#products:63

I also give both dogs virgin coconut oil several times a week, and have found that Evening Primrose oil ( cold pressed) has been helpful.

There is also some evidence that bioflavonoids like
Quercertin , can help histamine response.
http://www.immunesupport.com/92fal004.htm

Just some things to try, I think that every dog is unique in their reactions as well as responses for allergies.
I think there is no one thing works for all dogs.
My approach is to try different things to see what works.
The above things have worked for me at different times.
It's always a work in progress, and I am always searching for the most holistic approach for helping my dogs achieve optimal health.

Hi Joyce! Haven't talked to you in a while, I've been wondering how the dogs are doing with allergies lately. I can't remember whether you tried the allergy shots route or not?

I tried the Quercertin too for a while. It didn't seem to help Kasey, but my husband thinks it works for him when hayfever stuff attacks! I haven't had to try it myself, but a lot of people use it instead of antihistamines.

Hope you are all well!

Hi Lori!
Thanks for thinking of me and the dogs!
We went through a good stretch earlier this spring which was wonderful, the itching subsided and seemed almost non-existent.
I was so happy, but right now they are going through a rough patch again.
So I am starting to give the Detox blend twice a day to see if I can get those good results again.

I had taken Kaia off her allergy shots because she had been doing so great.
I will report back and let you know if the detox is working again.
I hope it works as well as it did last time.

I am actually giving Ester C that has a full bioflavonoid complex in there, so Quercertin is one of a couple besides Rutin.
I had stopped using this a while back, but now I am back to giving it again because I think it was helping.

I just read in my Dogs Naturally Magazine that virgin coconut oil is good for allergies, so giving this 4-5 days a week.

Thanks for asking, I hope all is well with you and Kasey!