Mmmm, hadn't heard of the coconut oil thing. I'll have to look into that!

 Quote: Lori Hall

Mmmm, hadn't heard of the coconut oil thing. I'll have to look into that!

Great reminder from Joyce!

I've been giving it for a couple of years now; not just virgin, though .... RAW. I think it was here that we had a long thread about it.* (Cold-pressed, expeller-pressed, etc. ... these aren't reliably raw. Cooking, for me, is a different use from giving it as is, the way you would add any other good raw oil.)

The word "raw" is often as small as all the other words on the label. You'll see the sticker shock, though! LOL

Since virgin and raw aren't synonymous, unless it's labelled raw, you will have to do some reading to find out what level of heat is applied to the one you're considering.

But http://www.foodrenegade.com/how-to-choose-a-good-coconut-oil/ has some good cautions (or maybe just things to decide about, because this is not a cheap food).

Like all fats, it can trigger diarrhea unless you give it very gradually (and I don't give much).

I work up to an eighth to a fourth teaspoon to ten pounds of dog. JMO, though.

I've read reliably that it's antimicrobial and antifungal, and somewhat antiviral.


* I can't find it, though. Found many passing mentions of it, but not the thread I want.


PS
It's not a substitute for the long-chain EFAs in fish oil. It's a complement. If I could not buy both, the fish oil would definitely win.

PPS
I'd love any links people might have to good articles about it.


PPPS
Here's how hard it can be to find the word "raw" on the label. The first link is the one that says "raw." (Both come in both of the sizes shown.)

http://bakerfoodcoop.org/onsale/upload/0030042095504.jpeg

http://images1.hellotrade.com/data2/XR/WV/HELLOTD-1823274/64-02050c-250x250.gif

I want to thank everyone for all the great ideas.

I only have a few days of Atopica left and then we will start the Chlortrimeton generic 4 x 2 day.

Baths. Well it sounded good to say ok, 3 baths a week but I see how that is not going to work. So I'm thinking 1 to 2 baths a week for now (summer) and I like the idea of washing the feet and underside a couple times a week or more. Even everyday when needed.

I do not know if the conditioner really helps all that much at this point but I'll keep using it for now.

I like the idea of Advantix every 3 weeks. Derm vet said we can do once a month but I think I"ll go with the once every 3 weeks per Lori. There was no freeze this winter and that could be one of the reason's allergies were bad for everyone.

Will do blood test every 6 mos as recommended.

We start the shots tomorrow with a diluted vial first.

I will write everything down so I have a time line.

Connie I have the Allergy Solution book you recommended. I'm reading it now. Lots of good ideas. I'm glad you reminded me to dry his feet well after rinsing them. I like the baby wipes idea too.

I did use many products such as Clear Allerqi and Allergy Free Tonic etc. None seemed to help.
I'm going to try a supplement with Quercetin and also that Detox Blend tincture. I take the Quercetin and it really helps. I was able to stop the Bendryl. I also like the idea of Raw, virgiin coconut oil. I use the coconut oil for cooking.

So, I think I have all the protocals down and understand the importance of all of them. But I have one last thing to tackle. And that is the food issue. I have to go back to work in a month and my husband is going for surgery soon. I realize how important feeding raw is but, we have been doing it since 10/2010. Before that my boy had the allergies plus he had stomach issues with every kibble we tried. So hoping that raw would help his allergies we started that and his allergies did get better till this winter. Then his allergies got worst than ever. (Last month Derm Vet said to cook his food till his immune system got better, which it has and he is doing great right now.( (Still on meds. )
So my problem is now I really need to look for a dog food that will work almost as well as raw food diet. There has to be a few out there that are healthy and will not harm my boy. I sure would appreciate any feedback on this issue. I know the timing is not great with starting all these other protocals, but not sure what else to do. The raw frozen foods are too expensive for a 105 lb dog so I need the next best thing. Freeze dried? Honest Kitchen? Tried that once and neither dog seemed to care for it. Hypo - allergenic kibble? There are a few with very limited ingredients. So please let me know what you think.

Thanks Geri

Geri, are you thinking you want to feed something you haven't already fed before, or are you just trying to figure out what to feed period? - i.e. you aren't trying to do an elimination diet yet, right?

If not, why not feed a combo of THK and some easy raw stuff like chicken backs and thighs? You could feed THK only for one of the daily meals, and then THK and a chicken back or leg quarter for the other meal. That way it's easy and you're still getting some raw in, and if there's meat in with THK your dog will probably like it better. Which THK did your dog not really like? Did you try the one with Chicken?

Other than that, you'd have to go with kibble, and if they don't do well with his stomach, not sure that would work? Kasey can't eat ANY kibble food - I tried them all, even the hypoallergenic expensive vet foods gave him loose stools and gas.

Lori,

Just want to find something that will not upset their stomachs. Not sure what THK that we tried as it was a long time ago. It had no grain. That I'm sure. No elimination diet for now. I want to see what happens with Frazier once he gets off Atopica. See if the bathing, rinse downs etc, etc etc help. Started shots today.
Also want to start some supplements for digestion. Might help.

Geri

EVERYTHING kibble upset Kasey's stomach, but THK does not. I feed raw 90% of the time, but occasionally if I run out of bones, or we go on a trip, I will feed THK - I keep some around all the time for these purposes. I feed Thrive - it has quinoa and chicken as the main ingredients. But if you want to go completely grain free, there are 4 different onces to choose from - beef, fish, chicken and turkey. Maybe try turkey and put a turkey neck in it once a day? That's probably what i'd do - that way turkey necks are readily available, don't take up much room, and are fairly cheap. That would cut down on the cost of the honest kitchen. Or you could do the same with the chicken.

Kasey had loose stools on every kibble, but especially if I add bones to THK, he's really good. Let me know what you decide!

I feel your frustration!!

By the way, THK is a consistency that lots of dogs are suspicious of at first.


We've had many threads here about introducing it to a suspicious dog, but I'll tell you my own M.O.: I start with a thin "gravy" of it and pour a little over a particularly beloved RMB.

You have a month to do it; I would urge that you move to the full-on THK/RMB diet slowly, and then on week four (before going back to work) having that full week to give the new diet and become fully confident.

Personally, I consider the balanced THKs (meaning not Preference, unless it's needed in a novel-protein diet) and RMBs to be the next best thing to a raw (whether homemade or frozen) diet.

http://leerburg.com/honestkitchen.htm

I would choose a balanced THK (as Lori mentions) with "add-ins" of RMBs.

I use chicken backs with it when I'm using THK (for vacations, etc.).

Keep us posted!

Well, I bought THK in the Beef favor yesterday. My allergic boy loved it but not the older fellow. I'll probably have to go to chicken for him. I actually put some chicken in both of their meals, but the older one picked up the chicken and wouldn't eat THK. So hopefully this will work. I'm also going to get Perfect Form and that is suppose to help with gas and upset tummy issues.

I'm wondering about adding the chicken necks and turkey necks.
I would think the turkey and chicken necks wouldn't be safe. It seems like the bones in those are on the small side.

Back to baths. I would like to do the Advantix every 3rd week. So do you think I should use medicated shampoo the 1st week, apply Advantix and do the Allergen shampoo or soapless shampoo the 2nd and 3rd week? All his scabs and sores and pimples are cleared up now. His coat is looking beautiful. Comments please.

Lori, you say you give the Chlortrimeton 4 times 2 a day. Does that knock out your dog all day. Seems like a lot. But if it works thats a good thing.

If I have a flair up how much and how long should I use the Triamcinolone.

Also has anyone read anything about using Plant steriods.? They talk about it in the book Allergy Solutions.

Thanks again. Think that 's it for today. Couple more days of Atopica. Interesting to see what happens after that.

Geri

 Quote: Geri Gill

... the older one picked out the chicken and wouldn't eat THK.

"I start with a thin "gravy" of it and pour a little over a particularly beloved RMB."


By this, I meant that there is a little bit of thinned THK over the RMB. Picking out the chicken wouldn't be possible. I should have described it better.

BTW, I've had a lot of THK experience now (my own and others' dogs) and have found that it's most like to be a texture issue. So again, with a suspicious dog, I don't present the usual texture. (I make up a little bit of liquid THK for the intro. That little bit of liquid is poured over the RMB. That's all I want for Step One ..... for the dog to taste the taste along with the RMB and not have the texture issue at all.)

I just want to add that my dogs now salivate when they smell it rehydrating.


Didn't get to the rest; sorry. Back later.

I would use chicken backs and turkey necks - those are both pretty big. But I even give Kasey chicken necks - he usually just pretty much swallows those whole!

Baths - I don't use any medicated shampoos, so I don't know if that shampoo and the Allergen shampoo will wash off the Advantix? What is the medicated shampoo for again? and what is the Allergen shampoo? I like to use just a soapless hypoallergenic shampoo with aloe, oatmeal, etc in it. Then I don't have to worry about the baths washing off the topical flea stuff. If your dog is short haired, like Connie said, just washing them down is going to help a lot.

Chlortrimeton - did your derma vet give you a dose he wanted you to use for that? Kasey is 85 lbs and my vet said I can give anywhere between 4 and 7 tablets 2 x's a day, but I would check with your vet to see what dosage they recommend. Dogs metabolize antihistamines differently than people do, and it takes a higher dose to achieve the effect you want. I've read that chlortrimeton is one antihistamine that takes quite a bit larger dose than say hydroxyzine, but it's also cheaper. Kasey doesn't show any side effects from it at all. He does get more sleepy with hydroxyzine - but it's more sedating. The thing about antihistimines in dogs, is that they are much more effective when used with other things like fish oil and steroids.

Which brings me to the steroid question. We use the antihistimine along with the steroid in order to be able to use a lower dose of the steroid. The antihistamine and steroid work together to help with the itching. I'm not saying to use steroid with the chlortrimeton, but rather, when you use steroid, always use the antihistamine with it so you can use a lower dose. Did you vet tell you how much Triam to use, and how often? For Kasey, when we tried that one (that one gives him the runs, so we had to try a few different ones till we found one that worked for him), we gave 1.5 mg tablet every other day for 2 or 3 doses, then every third day for a couple more doses. We don't use steroids all the time, only when he is going through a really itchy cycle - by giving it on the above schedule. it breaks the cycle and makes him more comfortable so he doesn't bite and scratch to the point of breaking the skin and causing more problems. Sometimes we will go for weeks, 6 or 8, without having to give him any, other times we have to go through a couple of cycles of it to settle him down. We have just learned how to gauge his itching and then respond with meds accordingly. The derma vet just kind of turns me loose to do what I think is right now because she knows we don't want to use any more meds than necessary.

Plant steroids? do you mean sterols? I am not very familiar with them, haven't tried them. Maybe Connie has?