My pup will be 5 mos old on Nov. 12th. I have been thinking about getting a prong collar, as if memory serves, Ed recommended starting the "correction phase" of training around 5-6 mos. I have a few questions about this that aren't specifically addressed in the Basic Obedience or Puppy DVD's I have from Leerburg (at least, not that I can remember offhand).

I know you don't correct a dog unless you are positive that he knows what you are asking him, and he refuses to mind. But, what if you're trying to get the puppy to STOP doing something and he won't listen? For example, if you are trying to teach a puppy to not bolt out the door (I don't have this problem, but it will illustrate what I mean), and treating him for staying doesn't work? Can you use the prong to teach the dog to stop doing this? I guess I'm wondering if the learning phase doesn't seem to be working on "stopping" certain (negative) behaviors vs. eliciting (positive) desired ones, can you use the prong to get your point across? (I realize this is not "positive reinforcement", but how can you reward the dog if you can't elicit the correct behavior you are looking for in the first place?) I've been making 1000 "nagging" corrections lately for negative behaviors, and I'm wondering if it's time to start using a prong.

I hope my question makes sense. Also, is 5 mos an appropriate age to start the correction phase? I will be re-watching my DVD's probably tonight, but I thought I'd ask since I'm online now.

Thanks, All!

I'm not an expert but 5 months seems a little young to me to start with any serious corrections. In the bolting example, wouldn't a drag line with a normal flat collar be just as effective?

I introduced the prong at about 11 months, but I am raising a pet, not a working dog. Don't know what you are raising Kodee Bear for?

I would continue to focus on a forming a strong bond with him at 5 months, if he is just a pet especially.

You said the bolting out of the door isn't the actual issue, you may get better responses if you spell out what exactly you are hoping to correct with the prong.

I would personally wait a little longer before starting the correction phase if I were you. Keith is right about the bonding.

The bolting out the door issue... well that's pack behavior and that can and should always be corrected.

http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/theoryofcorrections.pdf

Regarding nagging corrections, one good correction is better than 100 nagging ones.

Good questions, Kori.

You'll notice that the only time Ed recommends a prong on a dog under 5-6 months is when the dog is a heavy puller on a walk. That dog is self correcting. So, if you can create a situation where a dog self corrects (in your bolting example, only leave the house with the dog on lead, the prong will already have taught him/her not to pull on lead, voila) you're fine. Otherwise, it gets complicated. It really depends on the specific situation. Read that link that Richard posted on the Theory of Corrections, it's really a superb article. One of the important things it talks about is the difference between correcting Pack/Social behavior and correcting in an Obedience setting. The WAY you do it is totally different, and what you do afterwards is totally different. You need to read it, you'll appreciate the points Ed brings up. Jumping on people (for a pet) would be corrected as a social/pack issue, not an obedience issue, for instance.

Is 5 months too young...This varies for each and every dog. Instead of asking what age is too young, ask "Is my bond with my dog at a place where I'm comfortable introducing a prong collar for training." There are a lot of components to that question. You need to have trust, tons of communication, and the ability to read your animal. I know with previous dogs I've started prong work too early and done it incorrectly, this results in a dog who is squirrely. When they don't know what you want, instead of thinking about it and reasoning it out, they're so afraid of the correction that they just start guessing and throwing behaviours. Going into a panic like this will ruin a training session. In fact, when you get a dog to this point you pretty much need to start completely from ground level (with bond work) then start your training all over again.

There are a lot of dangers to introducing the prong too early or too liberally if the relationship isn't in place. There are no dangers to waiting until you feel comfortable doing it, and starting slow.

I will say this: 5 months is a great age to get the dog to start wearing the prong, especially if you don't start actually using it until 6 or 7 months.

One thing the "pros" on this board say over and over when you've bumped into an obstacle with training is stop, back up your training, and start again slowly.

I know every problem I've encountered in training is always due to me moving too fast and getting ahead of myself. Thankfully, dogs are forgiving

The only reason you might use a prong at this age would be if he's pulling you on walks, and even then you wouldn't give a correction. He would correct himself by pulling too hard.

Edited by Sarah Morris (11/07/2007 09:45 AM)
Edit reason: What David said...I type too slow!