until we get Pups tummy all sorted out, the vet, who condones responsible Raw diets, advised me to avoid raw chicken and raw pork. Turkey gives him the squirts so its not an option

He had an excess of salmonella and some E-coli on his Fecal results, as well as coccidia and worms. She said that with the shape his intestines were in it will be 2-5 before he is totally back on track. I put another call in to the SPCA and animal control about this "breeder" absolutely unacceptable

She did however say that the fact he isnt sicker and more underweight was a testament that we had been doing everything right and he was going to be just fine.

Im sure if we fed regular junk food kibble he wouldnt be in such good shape.

I was planning on phasing out the solid gold over the next month for for all three dogs as we bought a new freezer yesterday and i can stock up on enough meat now.

But I dont know how to get enough calcium and the proper ratio of calcium/phophate/meat in a dog who wont eat bigger thicker bones at all and who cant have poultry.

I had been feeding
Breakfast= 1 cup solid gold Wolfcub (bison/salmon)with
Kefir over the top

Lunch= a little lean Hamburger meat or ground pork mixed with either some pumpkin or Kefir,and some lightly scrambled egg a few times a week, usually partially fed frozen in a Kong to give him something to do.

Dinner= chicken wing with skin and boneless skinless thigh, fish oil, vitamin E, recently I was adding in some chicken gizzards or livers a couple times a week.

He also gets various steamed usually organic veggies such as green beans, sweet potatoes, broccoli, spinach..basically a little bit of whatever we are eating. Not a lot but some.

Snack= a couple baby carrots or cored apples during the day as a snack and for chewing. Either Natual balance Beef Roll diced or salmon jerky as training treats.

Last night I pounded a Leg quarter with a mallet and he ate it but didnt want to chew the boney peices. He only has his front needle teeth and a few puppy molars in the back with a big gap between them.

Some days it feels like he is eating all the time, between the meals and the little snacks and treats for training. But he isnt growing too quickly and he is on the thin side, his hips are too bony for my tastes.

He also eats every bite like he is starved, i dont know if its the parasites or if he is just so active and growing so fast he needs that much.

I also think he might be doing some sort of teething because he takes his kong or carrot or any sort of chew and gnaws on it in the back and groans and talks while he does it. He wont chew on raw beef knuckle or rib bones or chicken thighs/leg bones, basically anything harder than his puppy nylabone or a chicken wing

The vet checked him and his teeth and gums are fine but did look a little red like he might be starting to teeth. But I thought 3 months was young to be teething already.

When my granddog had some problems from acute pancreatitis (from a snack of rancid, rotten, sun-baked road kill of advanced age), his vet advised that he not ingest a lot of food pathogens for a few weeks.

Have you considered THK with raw lamb, say, or lightly-cooked chicken as the add-in? The THK is balanced, and the package tells you how much boneless meat you can add and still stay within the correct calcium-phosphorous ratio. You could alternate with the new Wellness no-grain canned Core; they have 95% meat.

These are among the good foods on the commercial list, IMO. The THK will allow you to feed him some fresh raw meat without using poultry for the RMBs, and the Wellness will give protein variety.

http://www.leerburg.com/honestkitchen.htm

When you are ready to start on raw, you can gradually swutch the THK add-in to chicken RMBs, then gradually switch to a real raw diet.

P.S. Salmon oil and vitamin E! No matter what the food, those long-chain Omega 3s are going to help with the inflammation.

http://leerburg.com/47.htm

http://www.leerburg.com/53.htm

Always salmon oil and Vitamin E, everydog everyday and the cats a lot of the time as well. its 1000 mg fish oil per 10 lbs of weight at a therapuetic does correct? What about the Vitamin E, Im never sure on the dosages in higher amounts for that one.

What are your thoughts on Bonemeal?

I will look into the THK and Wellness canned Core, is this different from the Neura 95% meat cans that wellness used to make?
I was sort of contemplating upping his intake of the Wolfcub kibble and having that be breakfast and dinner, with some raw for lunch and fresh crunchy snacks. They are all doing really well on it, and Nico is doing better than she had in some time on any food. It has more grain than I care for but at least its barley and millet rather than wheat and corn and rice.

I did see that Solid Gold makes a grain free dry called Barking at the moon, but WOW it was expensive locally!!!

And it is possible for me to be giving too much calcium all together when the Kefir is included in it all. He is eating quite a bit of it, but he loves it and his ears started going up almost immediately after starting it. It has added Inulin for calcium absorbtion.

I sort of figure between teething, growing so darn fast, poor maternal nutrition, a rough start in life eating Ol Roy for adults, and the parasites he needs all he can get to make sure he has strong teeth and straight strong bones.

Vitamin E
100-200 IU for small dogs, 200-400 IU for bigger dogs.

Why bonemeal? Do you mean to replace the bones if you feed raw meat with no bones?

Kefir and yogurt have calcium, of course, but in approximately the same ratio as RMBs. So you don't count it as EXTRA calcium; you count it as a balanced source.

Barley is very close to wheat in protein makeup.

Core is new (2006).

If you decide to give boneless raw or boneless cooked (I meam as the main food -- not as the add-in to THK), PM me and I will give you the calcium requirement based on the amount of meat.

Calcium supplementation for dogs is a slippery slope, IMO. "Extra," in the form of pills, which I often see people recommend for teething or ears, is a bad plan, IMO. The foods that dogs should eat "come with" the right proportion of calcium. Hypercalcemia is no better than hypocalcemia.

But if you have to feed boneless, then you have to add the calcium in the right ratio. In that case, you consider the yogurt, kefir, etc., as "coming with" their own calcium, and you base the supplementation only on the amount of food that comes without.

I was wondering about the bonemeal as a substitute for the RMB. for feeding raw without poultry, or in this pup who doesnt want to chew hard stuff yet.

I also dont ever add any calcium supplements or other vitamin type supplements other than the fish oil and vitamin E, to their diets, I do occassionally use Herbs for different issues but thats a whole other can of worms.
the bigger dogs certainly never have a problem eating bones or anything else for that matter lol.

Ive never fed a pup this young raw, especially not with medical issues.
With Nico after doing the research i just made a chart to make sure I was truly rotating her proteins and getting the organs in here and there. But I didnt worry too much about every little thing.
We then went off raw due to time and financial constraints. Im glad to be going back to it and for the big dogs I am finding that its like riding a bike.
But in a young growing pup with feeding and medical issues im a little overwhelmed and anxious.

Once I get through this with him I might just get the nerves to feed the cats raw

I understand the anxiety with the little one and all the medical issues. I'd probably go with the THK and either lightly-cooked poultry or raw lamb/other as add-ins. That way (one good point) you will have only one item to buy that's different from the other dog(s): the THK.

It won't even be for a long time, I betcha. A few weeks and he'll be back to "normal-gut," with the good food and the probiotocs. :>

Thanks!

its good to know im on the right track.
I fret over this little guy, and my dog-mommy guilt and worry is still needlessly high due to our recent loss.

He is such a doll too, and smart as a whip. The whole being able to Sit, Down and Paw in every different order and with no hesitation made me so proud. Tonight we learned to "Back Up"
Another lady that was waiting saw it and was amazed and asked me if we trained him all the time.
I was proud to say "nope just a clicker and 10 minutes a day!"