Visitors/workmen
#175700 - 01/16/2008 07:36 PM |
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We dont have people over all that often, and normally its the same few over and over again.
He does just fine with one of our friends, will sniff him tentatively and then back off and sit near me to watch him.
The other is our 19 yr od nephew, who is both good with dogs and bad with dogs. I dont mind if he keeps his distance from him for reasons i will leave unsaid.
So i have told my nephew to ignore him, and only interact if I give him a treat to give to him.
My mom comes by and he greets her, is happy to see her, but he wont let her really pet him, but he will play with toys or sit near her.
BUT
Dogs know my mom by the name of Hot Dog Lady, both mine and other Dogs who are family friends. Plus we lived with them for nearly 3 weeks when we first got Fargo. So she isnt the best litmus for outside of family socialization.
Today we had the cable guy here for a couple of hours doing repairs on our stuff and also some installation, it was lots of in and out and messing with our entertainment center, computer desk etc. Stuff that is suspicious to a dog for a stranger to do I would think. The big dogs were gated in the hallway and Loki was at his most pathetic , and Pup was in the room with me and barked his fool head off at the guy everytime he came back in. I told him shoosh and when he was quietI broke out the new squeeky stuffies to distract him.
It seemed to work but he would drop the toy occasionally and give a couple barks. I ingored it as long as he stopped quickly.
Then I had another guy come to look at our kitchen and see about installing a new sink and fixture. He is a friend of the family so i let him know what the deal was with the dog and he ignored him even when the pup came over to sniff him.
I could tell he was afraid and unsure of having him here though and decided to go to the doorway of the kitchen where he could see the guy but not be too close for comfort. We worked on some basic obedience, sit and down etc, with extra yummy salmon treats.
once he was no longer paying attention to the guy we went into the kitchen
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Re: Visitors/workmen
[Re: Jennifer Lee ]
#175701 - 01/16/2008 08:01 PM |
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Progress is slow and sometimes frustrating, and Ive never dealt with a dog who was afraid of people and im not sure the best way to overcome it without coddling him and making it worse.
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Re: Visitors/workmen
[Re: Jennifer Lee ]
#175722 - 01/16/2008 10:03 PM |
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The first German Sheppard puppy I bought many-many moons ago was an extremely fearful dog at eight weeks of age. If someone came over she would either hide under a table growling at them or she would run from the room and not come back out until the people were gone. I had no idea how to handle her fear so basically I just accepted that this is the way she was. I would take her for walks with me and if someone came near she would fight the leash to try and get away and I would quietly stand there until she quit fighting and we would continue on with our walk. We moved around a lot so didn’t have very many people over, but when we did I just let Duchess go into another room where she felt safe and left it at that.
In many ways this was one of the best dogs I have ever owned, she eventually settled down and accepted other people in our home and would even stay in the same room. She just wasn’t interested in them petting her; she would stay right by me and follow me from room to room. On walks she quit shying away from people, I wouldn’t let anyone bother her and she was fine.
I think if you work calmly with your dog and slowing build up his confidence you will go a long way toward helping your dog overcome his fears. Don’t get frustrated, learn his fears and one by one work to help him overcome them. He may never be rock solid, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a good loving member of your family.
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Re: Visitors/workmen
[Re: PeggyBayer ]
#175730 - 01/16/2008 10:56 PM |
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He is a very dominant hard little pup with us and our other dogs,
he is the first pup i have ever raised that a good clap and NO! didnt at least make them stop for a minute, he is a little demon spawn lots of days, full of pee and vinegar!
He is also dominant with Loki, will go over and plop right down on his head if I let him or lay over him and hump, which is interesting at such a young age.
He has NEVER come anywhere close to humping a human and is docile with my son after a single correction several weeks ago.
I still dont let him loose with him though.
So for a dog who has never shown a bit of fear with us, not from day one, and who was by far the most outgoing in the litter i did not expect these fearful reactions to people.
He bonded with us instantly and has been a wonderful pup who gives me fits and has driven me to tears of frustration, and pain!
But he is smart as a whip, and sweet as can be, and I know he will grow up to be a good dog, the kind that you know is a true friend and companion. Its just getting there with the poor dear demon child!!
I talked to a friend who is a trainer..not for petsmart and I think we are going to go observe an adult advanced obedience class or two. She will let them know ahead of time to ignore him and just let him watch, so he wont be overwhelmed with strangers affections or bounding pushy puppies.
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Re: Visitors/workmen
[Re: Jennifer Lee ]
#175734 - 01/16/2008 11:22 PM |
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Jennifer -
It doesn't sound too bad to me. He recovered quickly, was happily distracted with toys, went to investigate/sniff. What else does he do that makes you think he is fearful? Does he try to hide all the time or avoid people like the plague? When he was barking, was he moving forward, standing still, trying to run?
I think you handled the situation well - not forcing him but not allowing him to run away. Redirecting with good things and letting him take his time to look at the stranger and assess.
I would probably first try to distract and then to correct. I mean really distract, wave that toy, squeek that thing like a fool, put that treat right in front of his little nose. Quiet means play/treat. While distracted move a bit closer to the stranger, keep him engaged/playing. You can encourage him to follow the person if they are going in and out, going with to get some forward movement without really get closer.
I can't remember how old he is :-/ but I know he is still pretty young. I would focus on him just being quiet and focused versus Ob work, unless that is how you get him quiet and focused. How long did he bark after you said to shoosh? Did it take a hile, did you have to repeat or was he pretty quick about it?
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Re: Visitors/workmen
[Re: Jennifer Marshal ]
#175739 - 01/16/2008 11:55 PM |
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The barking stopped pretty quickly after i shooshed him, but if the guy turned around and looked like he might come towards him he would start right back up. I then picked up the squeeky and made a fuss to distract him and then played a little tug with him let him kill the "mousey"
He never sniffed or approached the cable guy, but i could also tell the guy was a little annoyed by the banshee in the hallway..my houndog howling and sounding like he was dying, and by the barking puppy, and by me basically acting like a fool trying to redirect puppy to the toy.
With the guy who came later to look at our sink, he barked at him for a good minutes straight, and I ignored it thinking it would stop. When it didnt i calmly called him into me and let him see the clicker and then walked to the kitchen doorway and sat on the floor with pup and did the clicker stuff.
He totally refocused on me and was calm and no longer acting afraid, he did start a few times when the guys head would pop out of the doorway to measure the new sink or something. But he was very much focused on me..or the salmon treats LOL!
We sat in the kitchen next and it was probably 5 minutes before he ventured over to sniff the guys butt as he had his head shoved up under the sink. one quick sniff and he scurried back to sit between my knees..i was sitting on a bucket.
If we see a person other than me, my husband and my son he tries to run the other direction. When we are out walking I ignore it and keep on walking. At home I dont allow him to run away but i will allow him to observe from behind my legs, i ignore him when he does this.
If someone is facing him nut not moving he will bark bark bark, the second they move his direction he tucks tail and puts his ears down to the side and tries to escape.
BUT
if they walk past and ignore him he then wants to follow and check them out.
He will usually check out an extended hand, to see if there is a treat in there im sure because i hand them out to random people to give to him But he will only do that if I or my husband are close by.
About a week ago he allowed my mom to touch him for the first time, and greeted her happily with ears back and tail wagging, he then put his paw in her hand and rested his chin on it and just sat like that for about 5 minutes. Neither of us dared move it was such a big improvement.
the obedience is a game, he seems to really enjoy it, Im using a clicker, zero corrections, If he doesnt do it then i wait, and 90% of the time right about the time I think he doesnt know what I want he does it. The minute he sees the clicker in my hand he is all business. We keep it short sweet and simple.
Hes not really that into toys(hands, ears and necks are much better)
but he LOVES rats and mice, so i got some small mousey sized squeeky stuffed animals today, Im sure they wont last but a day or two but they were on sale so i stocked up.
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Re: Visitors/workmen
[Re: Jennifer Lee ]
#175741 - 01/17/2008 12:22 AM |
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Squeeker toys are a great redirection/distraction tool. Once the pup is used to those toys you can just get a package of squeekers for like 2$ and keep it in your pocket to redirect attention to you.
The little guy had a rough start in life, considering his interest in following them after they are not facing him, he doesn't sound too bad. I had overlooked the part about the other dog yowling/howling etc. That has a definite affect on a pup. When someone is sounding an alarm, it makes the atmosphere less pleasant.
His hiding behind you I would try to prevent, the tricky part is not forcing him to do anything as that only causes more anxiety and damages trust in you.
Duke did not like strangers. At all. Nowhere was a stranger a good thing for him. I got him at a bit over 12 weeks of age and it took him until around 5 months before I saw much improvement.
What I would do for the walks, is when he sees someone he becomes worried about, the stopping is great. Try to catch it before he barks or freaks out, if you can - like that stage when he has just seen them but has not reacted yet. Just stop and ask for his attention - take a squeekie toy or treats or anything he is incredibly enthusiastic about. He associates the clicker with good things, correct? Bust out the clicker! Ask for a sit, do some light OB work to keep him focused.
If he is too worried about them/won't focus/breaks focus a lot, then crouch down and put yourself between him and the person. Obstruct his line of sight and prevent him from looking around you at them, this can help with the focusing if he can't easily see them.
Follow them at a comfortable distance for him. Just cross the street and follow them until he seems bored with the fact that you are not getting closer, the stranger is not doing anything noteworthy.
It will take time. The most important thing is his trust and bond with you. Once he starts to mature and has that firm bond and trust developed there are other things you can do for strangers to not be scary things.
Duke is not terribly outgoing, he does not seek strangers out but he can be taken into a busy supermarket with carts and people and kids and strange stuff and is perfectly comfortable - the reason is he knows these people are not going to hurt him, they are not even going to touch him unless he is comfortable with it. He ignores them even if they are coming head on at us because he knows nobody is going to try to touch him and for the most part he is ignored. Maybe a look or two but his vest says "Do not pet me I am working" so people move on without a fuss. If he does become stressed, and I always keep tabs on his comfort level by watching ears/eyes/lips/tail/posture, I put him in a down and we quietly wait for people to pass by, when he is comfortable again (and I often bust out treats and ask for look at me, reward, look at me, reward without breaking the down) we move on.
For a fearful pup, sitting quietly is the goal vs letting people touch him. Touching/petting is always the very last thing to ask for from an unsure dog/pup.
Good luck. I love huskies.
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Re: Visitors/workmen
[Re: Jennifer Marshal ]
#175746 - 01/17/2008 01:00 AM |
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I dont expect him to be pet or loved on by anyone but my my husband and son. But i don want him to be able to be around people and not be afraid or unsafe due to fear biting.
Once he is big enough i think I am going to get the I am working do not pet vest...that way people wont think i am such a meanie, and it will save me a lot of explanations
But I must have that vibe down pretty well, the totally aloof and unaproachable vibe... because we are getting a whole lot less of "OOOh a puppy" and people assuming they can gush all over him.
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Re: Visitors/workmen
[Re: Jennifer Lee ]
#175748 - 01/17/2008 01:14 AM |
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I wouldn't worry about fear biting right now. Fear biting is when a dog is pushed too far when stressed. When I caught Duke he thought I was trying to kill him. For the first 2 days if I was going to touch him I had to have gloves on as he would scream and holler and fight and BITE like a demon! It was self preservation.
Even with that to start with, beginning by being stressed and scared and just absolutely freaked out and biting, he is a very safe and pretty darn stable dog. He is only 9 months now and I am still working out the last kinks Re: Strangers along the fenceline (territorial) he shows no signs of fear biting.
I think he will be ok, with consistent handling and slowly getting used to first seeing people, then progressing to getting closer, then closer, and closer, being around people and not being touched or bothered, then occassionally being touched with non threatening body language/yummy treats, he should do well.
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