In Holland they train police dogs to target specific people by using laser pointers.

I can see how that would be effective, I think the think with that though is that the dog has a reward for the chase, a way to unload by getting the bite. Whereas a light on a wall or floor the dog cannot catch.

I am sure they have good uses but as a toy I won't even use them for my cats. My cats are crazy enough without becoming obsessed with lights.

 Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood

In Holland they train police dogs to target specific people by using laser pointers.

Maybe that is where he got the idea from then. Just thought it was an interesting story.

Hi Jennifer,

You hit the nail on the head. I was going to post the same thing. Now that the main problem is identified...what to do next? Using the light to obtain something positive is a step in the right direction.

In the case of using a laser to direct a bite, that may be a slippery slope for someone other than a police or military handler. In that venue you can take a negative and make something good happen. To teach a civilian dog to bite everything a laser touches may not be a good idea.

The dillemma is...what to do if positive motivation and tons of exercise doesn't fix the problem. One might have to use negative reinforcement, ie; e-collar to break the habit which is much like a dog that has a serious crittering problem. I haven't seen it done but its something to mull over.

Howard

Howard, if you can't get the dog redirected onto something then correction may be best as it is IMO a very unhealthy obsession.

I would use light beams to target the dog on a tug or ball, something the dog can unload on but I agree that I don't think using a light for targeting with a light obsessed dog is good for civilian dogs as lights are everywhere and it would seem to me to be too much of a liability. Heck I have crystal windchimes outside that shine crazy dancing rainbows all over the house, I can't imagine a light obsessed dog in here during sunset! I know someone that go bit accidentally by a dog when the owner thought it would be cute to shine the laser light on their butt when they weren't paying attention and the dog did indeed go after it.

I would try having the dog target a tug/ball on string etc with the light as a means of redirecting that frustration a giving the dog an outlet. It can take a while but the eventual goal is that when the dog sees a light it looks for the tug instead/comes to the handler for tug/unloading. I've only done this once so I'm no expert.

So, in a room where you can make sure random light doesn't sabotage your training session, get a small beam flashlight or laser light etc and show to the dog, dog sees the light, goes into drive, shine the light on a tug or ball etc and when the dog grabs the tug or ball, mark and reward with tug or however you are choosing to unload the dog/give that outlet reward and turn off the light. It works best with two people, one to shine the light one to hold the tug/give the mark and reward.

The first couple of times it will probably take a while. I just kept at it until the dog was tired. The more driven the dog the longer it can take, of course and always be careful not to overdo it.

Once the dog is doing well redirecting to the tug or ball(or whatever play item/toy you are choosing) consistently/is starting to look for the tug then I would start making it more of a decision for the dog. Light is moving, not shining on the tug or ball, make the tug more appealing. So light moving slowly, tug moving faster to be the more appealing prey item. Gradually make it more difficult with the light moving faster or moving into rooms with other, natural lights or shadows. Key here is that the dog chooses to go for the tug as being the more appealing prey item/able to unload that frustration.

I didn't need to correct much after this stage, it was a verbal no! and dog stops, mark and pull out the tug for reward. It took 2 months of working at it several times a week to get this dog to the point of ignoring lights/coming to the handler to play instead. This is just what worked for me, there could definitely be better ways.

Great analysis of the problem, Jenn. It makes total sense. I had never thought of it that way.

I'm a bit leary of trying the fix with my dog though. I'm afraid it might reward his obsession with the light and do nothing to deter his determination to get to it. It almost seems it could go either way - positive or negative - and it would be hard to know which way it would go when it's first attempted. I can see it going in a positive direction as his frustration is alleviated, or in a negative way rewarding him for his obsession as he gets a bite in the end.

There's the rub, Sandy. Only you can make that decision. You know enough about what you want, and how to train the behavour once a decision is made. Most of all, you know your dog. Either way, do something. If you let it be then it will get worse. It sounds very extreme already.

Howard

Sandy, very valid concerns. It is just the possitive way of redirecting the energy.

For a dog that is really obsessed, I would treat the redirecting/marking as the learning stage and move into the correction stage to proof away the light obsession.

I forgot to say that for a dog used for bitework/PPD etc I would use an item to redirect that was only for redirecting off the light, not the normal reward item so as to prevent any negative associations with that prey item.

The thing with the light obsession is that you want the dog to redirect and look for the tug, the idea is that the tug is the reward, not the light. You only reward the chasing of the light when introducing the redirection to the tug or ball etc.

If the dog is really super obsessed with the light and will not redirect to a tug item then I would correct the behavior
and then offer the tug or toy/prey item. Give the dog an option so you are not just correcting the prey drive for the light you are still offering a prey item for the dog to get. I would just make sure the dog knows what the correct response is, as soon as you get a look back or a step back or a stop of forward motion mark that as the correct response to being corrected from the light and when you have that attention try to redirect.

Its difficult, the dog I worked with on this was not a high drive dog or anything but a companion so there was less to worry about ruining.

How interesting....

I must admit I was quite surprised to see such an outcry of horror regarding lazer lights. We have always played with lazers with our dogs and never had any issue with it. It has always served as a fun way to allow the dogs to let off some steam and they really seem to love it. Maybe some dogs get psycho about it but that has never really been an issue here. Very interesting thread..

 Quote: RobbinMann

How interesting....

I must admit I was quite surprised to see such an outcry of horror regarding lazer lights. We have always played with lazers with our dogs and never had any issue with it. It has always served as a fun way to allow the dogs to let off some steam and they really seem to love it. Maybe some dogs get psycho about it but that has never really been an issue here. Very interesting thread..

I would SO not do it. As you see from the thread, you cannot know which dog will start with OC behavior, and when.

And having seen it, I have seen that it's not a happy thing.