Ashley,
Good luck with your choice. I know you will find the perfect pet companion. Just keep in mind he/she has to get along with your lab, and visa.

Actually, I'm not getting another dog until I move out, so I don't have to worry about whether or not it gets along with old George. =)

To answer your question it's all about exposure and what floats your boat. It's different for everyone. As it was once mentioned to me in school Mark Twain loved his terrier so much that it traveled the country with him and ate at his table. He hated his Bloodhound enough that he ordered it taken out and shot. While I don't suggest buying ammo to solve your mistakes research and exposure to the bad side of every breed (and there is one) is a must.

*chuckles* For me it'll likely always be papillons as my main breed of choice, followed by Newfoundlands, shiba inu, and Bernese Mountian dogs. I find all of their personalities generally appealing in a way I find acceptable. Their look, exercise requirements, coat, and temperment I find very appealing.

Right now I have a labrador who was dropped on my lap so to speak and she will be my first and last one simply because we are not meshing the way I prefer with my pups and that's ok. She's a very well bred dog and frankly after exposure to her and alot of other labs I find them just overhyped as a family pet, too much energy for the average dog owner, too destructive on my yard, wishy washy on drive, and not nearly the fun to train as my papillons. This dog however is mine for life and I'll continue to care, train, and dote on her as I do all my dogs. She'll just very likely never be the one like Booker, Bodie, and Misty my papillons are.

 Quote:

I wonder what people mean when they say "This is not a breed for inexperienced owners." Do they mean your "typical" first-time owners who have not researched the breed or even how to care for a dog? The kind that think that walking Fido for one day a week is good enough. Is that what inexperienced means?

Inexperienced in the terms of the Malinois, as you mentioned that thread, is a person that has never trained a working dog before. You can have had average pet dogs for your whole life, and I still wouldn't suggest diving into a Malinois as your first working dog, if you start with a good one that is. But my assumption is that you always try to look for a good dog, you don't intentionally go out to buy a crap dog because he'll be easier, that would be silly. If you want easier to handle then get a good dog from a breed that is less nutty I'd compare it to giving a 16 year old a 400 horsepower Corvette as his first car. He's going to make mistakes, either he's going to ruin a perfectly good car or he's going to get himself injured.

In terms of a GSD, I wouldn't give Will Rambeau's Czech dog Fetz to a first time handler, but there's lots of nice working line German Shepherd's out there that would be appropriate to someone with little to no experience with working dogs.

To me a first time handler needs a dog that is submissive to the handler, willing to please, driven enough to make training easy, but not so driven that the dog is difficult to handle. Hard enough to not shut down from mistakes and short tempers and the abundance of corrections that first time handlers think a dog needs, but not so hard that it detracts from the "will to please." Ofcourse, if you are a very soft person that doesn't often get impatient or short tempered then look for a softer dog. But soft doesn't always mean easy to train. The overall traits of the dog all need to be in balance or you will end up with a soft dog with no will to please and too little drive

If you're looking for a puppy then stack the odds in your favor with the breed that most suits that description. Lots of them do, but it also depends on the individual breeding, so don't go entirely on breed generalizations.

If you're looking for an adult then breed is less important than the dogs temperament. You could probably find yourself a Malinois with that temperament if you looked for it in an adult, but I wouldn't go to a top French Ring breeder and tell them you want a dog like that, because the odds are not stacked in your favor.

Out of the working breeds, your best bet is probably a German Shepherd, but choose the breeder carefully.

As for what traits make a dog unsuitable for a first time handler, since you mentioned the Malinois thread, go look there, I posted some traits that many Malinois owners will be able to relate to Generally, the amount of energy they have is the least of your worries if you have a good working-quality dog.

Ashley,

As I recall from another post of yours dealing with "experienced owners only", you volunteer at a shelter and your heart's wish is to one day own a presa canario. Since you volunteer at a shelter, I'd say that makes you more than a "greenie". Plus you've seen what happens to a dog when an owner gives up.

In your time at the shelter, you must have encountered dogs that behaved in a way that was inconsistant with its breed temperment standard- frightened dobermans, aggressive labradors, dominant boston terriers... So you know it can be hard to generalize temperment by breed.

JMHO, you should start with a pitbull rescue with a sweet nature, the energy level you desire, and good looks. And don't be afraid to ask kennel staff to give their honest opinion of a dog you get interested in.

I like Mike's answer. Especially the analogy about the 16 yr old kid with a corvette. Makes perfect sence too that you wouldn't go buy a crappy version of a breed rather a different breed to meet your present needs.

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

 Quote:

I wonder what people mean when they say "This is not a breed for inexperienced owners." Do they mean your "typical" first-time owners who have not researched the breed or even how to care for a dog? The kind that think that walking Fido for one day a week is good enough. Is that what inexperienced means?

Inexperienced in the terms of the Malinois, as you mentioned that thread, is a person that has never trained a working dog before. You can have had average pet dogs for your whole life, and I still wouldn't suggest diving into a Malinois as your first working dog, if you start with a good one that is. But my assumption is that you always try to look for a good dog, you don't intentionally go out to buy a crap dog because he'll be easier, that would be silly. If you want easier to handle then get a good dog from a breed that is less nutty I'd compare it to giving a 16 year old a 400 horsepower Corvette as his first car. He's going to make mistakes, either he's going to ruin a perfectly good car or he's going to get himself injured.

In terms of a GSD, I wouldn't give Will Rambeau's Czech dog Fetz to a first time handler, but there's lots of nice working line German Shepherd's out there that would be appropriate to someone with little to no experience with working dogs.

To me a first time handler needs a dog that is submissive to the handler, willing to please, driven enough to make training easy, but not so driven that the dog is difficult to handle. Hard enough to not shut down from mistakes and short tempers and the abundance of corrections that first time handlers think a dog needs, but not so hard that it detracts from the "will to please." Ofcourse, if you are a very soft person that doesn't often get impatient or short tempered then look for a softer dog. But soft doesn't always mean easy to train. The overall traits of the dog all need to be in balance or you will end up with a soft dog with no will to please and too little drive

If you're looking for a puppy then stack the odds in your favor with the breed that most suits that description. Lots of them do, but it also depends on the individual breeding, so don't go entirely on breed generalizations.

If you're looking for an adult then breed is less important than the dogs temperament. You could probably find yourself a Malinois with that temperament if you looked for it in an adult, but I wouldn't go to a top French Ring breeder and tell them you want a dog like that, because the odds are not stacked in your favor.

Out of the working breeds, your best bet is probably a German Shepherd, but choose the breeder carefully.

As for what traits make a dog unsuitable for a first time handler, since you mentioned the Malinois thread, go look there, I posted some traits that many Malinois owners will be able to relate to Generally, the amount of energy they have is the least of your worries if you have a good working-quality dog.

Hey Ashley, print out Mike's post and take that criteria to the right breeder, you won't go wrong. His description of what to look for describes our first Rott who was also the first dog I had as an adult and did any training with. It gave me experience and the introduction to good people. From the young working line German Shepherds I see, I think you will be very happy and with a little common sense and direction you'll be fine.