I have a couple of questions regarding training with an e-collar, specifically for anyone who does training professionally for others.
I know almost nothing about e-collars as we have never used one on any of our dogs and the 2 SchH clubs I've belonged to didn't allow them (I'm pretty sure, regardless no one used one that I saw). I have seen them used by hunting people and have been at other SchH clubs and was around a few folks who had them. My general impression then was that is was a lazy trainer's shortcut. Now I'm basing this on the old e-collars I saw used that seemed to be very strong and didn't have multiple settings or warning beeps or anything like that. I saw a guy burn one out on a Rottie trying to get him to do a "faster" recall and the whole episode turned my stomach. Now, don't get me wrong, I've also seen folks do some training with prongs, chokes or even bottle caps that shocked me, so I realize the tool is not the problem, as much as the trainer and the methods.
Fast forward 8 or so years later and the world of e-collars seems to have changed. I have watched a few videos of trainers using them in very different ways from what I was used to and find it interesting.
What I wonder is for those who use an e-collar to work out a specific problem (be it off-leash running away or whatever) does one ever get to the point that the dog is reliable without having to wear the e-collar the rest of their life? We have a few boarding clients whose dogs were taught by trainers(out of state before they moved here) who use the e-collar and every now and again, the dogs show up here with their e-collars on because they were getting bad about running away off-leash so they are getting a refresher with the e-collar.
Is this common to have to constantly refresh the e-collar training?
I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, I really just want to know if others "graduate" off the e-collar or how it works?
Annette Holbrook

Done correctly the dog won't need to wear the e-collar beyond the proofing stage.

I've wondered this myself. A trainer I worked with in the past, who would also board my dog ocassionally, would greet me at the door with 5 dogs near her (hers plus 1 or 2 others), and 5 remotes around her neck. She'd joke about it, as I'd hand her my remote to my dog (that she encouraged me to get.)

I feel she had a lot of good training advice to offer, but I always felt wary about some of her methods. In my opinion, as an unskilled beginning dog trainer, e-collars should not be relied upon. They are a means to an end. I want my dog to listen to ME, not just the e-collar (or any other training device.) It got to the point where I realized my dog would only listen if he saw that remote in my hand. Otherwise I got the bird.

In closing, I ocassionally use the e-collar, but I try to rely more on my body language and "energy", and I've found HUGE improvements in the relationship between me and my dog. There's a time and a place for the e-collar, for sure, but it's just a tool; it should not be a forever accessory.

I don't agree about the dog not needing to wear the collar beyond the proofing stage.

I think the best trainers out there are good because they are prepared. I see many people take the leash off the dog because they consider an exercise proofed and then struggle because the dog becomes "leash wise". The same with the ecollar.

The dog wearing the collar shouldn't matter, but it's there if you need it. If you have months go by and you don't ever have to push the button then you know your training is doing great (OR you aren't really testing your dog)

I am a big believer in setting yourself up for success. If you don't have the tools on the dog and in your hand, and you need them the dog has just gotten some valuable information about the tool controlling him and not the human. I would rather have what I need on my dog and find I don't need to use it, then the other way around.

If I had a nickel for everytime I have seen someone at training work with their dog and then the dog needs some feedback (either through a leash, longline or ecollar) and they don't have the tool on the dog, they run to the car, get the equipment, put it on and meanwhile 10 minutes have gone by. This makes no sense to me at all.

I will say that if you are a more progressive trainer the proofing stage may never end... and so the tools should be part of the dog's daily life. If the collar goes on each morning and comes off later in the day, the dog thinks nothing about the collar at all. It's just part of his day. I know when I was competing in SchH that my dog wore the training collars every day, and the day of the trial when the collar came off it was no big deal. Dogs are creatures of habit and I had created good habits in the dog that weren't triggered by a collar being on or being off. My dog knew from past experience that I always had the means to correct her if needed and so the collar being off ONE day for a competition didn't give her a reason to think it wasn't possible on that day as well. ( I hope that came across the right way)

JMO based on my experience....many many years of experience LOL (I'm old now)

I do agree with you Cindy, but wouldn't that fall into the category of maintenance training, rather than needing the e-collar to maintain control over the dog?

 Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood

But wouldn't that fall into the category of maintenance training, rather than needing the e-collar to maintain control over the dog?

absolutely.

Thanks Mike and Cindy for this insightful exchange. I have recently started using the e-collar (for about 2 months now) and had some of the same questions. Similarly, I have gotten away from using the prong collar, as I cannot figure out a good way to use it in conjunction with the e-collar. If I put them both on at the same time, then inevitably one is not on correctly, as they are both supposed to go behind the ears. Any recommendation on using other collars in conjunction with the e-collar would be appreciated as well.

-Al