I know this has been spoken about before, but I was hoping to get some individual answers. So I was going to start Flash in Schutzhund, but lacked the drive at the first "class." I think it was more how the instructor/training director approached it. He basically charged at my dog like a mad man to determine his drive.

Anyway, I started him in agility as I need a way to work him and burn some energy and he has a ton of drive at home. The problem is, I think, since I rescued him, he was not exposed to a lot of dogs and other obstacles. This correlates into not him a little nervous at class. He is in no way dog aggressive, but he gets nervous around the obstacles. For instance, when tere are gates creating a hallway of sorts for him to walk through, he won't take treats until he is done. The instructors don't want me to force him through the obstacles, but I feel we don't have the time to let him just figure it out on his own. Since he won't approach even for a tasty treat, and there are 6 other people in my group (4 stations, work each one about 15 minutes, total of 27 people in class all separate by dog size and puppies are their own group). He also has to go in the crate while we are learning what we are doing for the day, which I think takes some drive out of him too.

My question is, how to I build his drive to want to do the obstacles? I know he will never be an agility champ, but that is not why I am doing this. I just feel I am holding up the line of other students when I am trying to get him to do something. The training director did take me aside to do one on one training for the tunnel since he won't go in. He is a very large dog, over 100 lbs and over 30" at the withers. The tunnel is probably only 20"-24" high, so I can understand him not wanting to go through. We didn't get him through last night, but did get him to put a foot in with the tunnel all the collapsed.

What can I do? I think it is more nerves like I said. I use Zuke treats and someone even gave me canned dog food for the tunnel, it helped, but not enough. He seems to lose interest when anything of the like is an obstacle. Even his recall is good, but he trots and doesn't run like he normally does when we are not in class and in a park or field.

Thanks for all your dieas, I am at a loss for what I can do. Also, he is almost 3 years old so I am hoping this is something that can be done at his age. He is super obedient and I was even able to walk him off leash back to his crate navigating through other dogs. He is very driven at home and has huge prey drives.

Thanks,

Keith,

I think you're trying to go too fast with Flash. Your dog is clearly telling you some things, and you should listen to him.

Everyone is always in a big hurry to do obstacles when it comes to agility. However, there is so much you can do before you get near an obstacle, having to do with groundwork...communicating with your dog on the flat.

It also sounds like he may be somewhat uncomfortable with the other dogs and/or handlers in the class. Again, if that's the case, then he's giving you good information.

I'd back way up. You can take him to playgrounds, where it's just you and him, and let him explore playground equipment (the safe stuff...nothing too slippery or anything that scares him outright). Have really good treats...perhaps Zukes aren't a strong enough reinforcer for him...have you tried plain popcorn, bacon, swiss cheese, teriyaki chicken? Have a good-sized bag filled with lots of really yummy stuff, a variety, so he never knows what wonderful tibdit he's going to receive.

Heck, is he even used to going to strange places with you? If not, I'd just start there...making it lots of fun to go exploring beyond your own backyard. While you're walking down a street, you can have him hop up onto a low obstacle, wait, hop off...big party. Have him go under and thru signs and chairs things like that. Just get creative with the natural obstacles you can find in most environments, and make sure he knows you think he's WONDERFUL for doing any little thing like that.

I suspect your own anxiety over holding the class up is being clearly communicated to him as well. If you're anxious, and it's clear you are , then he'll pick up on that and figure, man, there's a reason not to be copacetic here!

If he shows you lots of drive at home, I assume that's when you're playing with him...take those games on the road, and play with him with the same toys, just in new contexts/places. Build up his confidence that way, before you think about putting him in a class situation in which he's not comfortable.

And, as far as this class you're already signed up for and have paid for...you can always hang out with him in a corner of the room, out of the way of the rest of the class, and give him lots of great treats for attention to you, for various obedience commands, etc., while the class is going on, which will make being around a class situation much more appealing and attractive to him.

If you force him to go thru tunnels and such when it's clear he's not interested, you'll never build drive for this most fun of games.

leih

Thanks for your response. I should clarify, this is a groundwork and foundation class. No real obstacles besides the tunnel, more equipment such as gates. It is supposed to be just to establish the groundwork for agility. They won't let us even get nears jumps or A-frames as they know our dogs nor us are ready. It is a really respected club here so I trust them.

I take him everywhere so he is not secluded in the backyard. We go for walks at different parks and places every night. I even drive nights to make sure we go different places. It has just started cooling down, so not until recently have we been getting to go as many places again. It was 102 degrees here last weekend, but hopefully we are done with that.

When I play with him it, especially since starting class it is without toys. When we are at the park he does chase the ball, but usually gets bored quickly. He is more interested in birds and my other dogs. I try playing with him in class to get drive up, but as soon as he has to walk through gates he is very hesitant.

I will definitely try higher reward treats next week. They suggest Hot dogs. I will probably try that and other high value treats. I have two other dogs that don't give a second thought to the things he does. I have worked with all of them, including some of the same exercises and they don't lose drive, but they are definitely more food driven then him. I think since I rescued him later in life(he was over 1) that he wasn't introduced to things by his previous owners at an early stage. He is very outgoing no matter where we go, he just ins't so sure around the tools at class. As a side note, last week we had to meet somewhere else to train (our normal place, granted this was only our 3rd week, is at a vets office where they have an acre field setup behind it) where he was way more comfortable and going through the gates without hesitation. Could he know this is a vets office and be hesitant for that reason?

Thanks,

 Quote: Keith Kaplan

Could he know this is a vets office and be hesitant for that reason?

Yes

Sounds like a great class. I wish more people would do foundation work.

IMO, hot dogs are not all that high value in the treat category...but it really depends on your dog. Let him tell you what will make him work harder (which means trying different treats with him).

You could try taking him to this training field when other classes are going on, and just keep him outside the fencing (or whatever) and give him lots of treats for being with you and not getting anxious.

My dog loved going to the vet...she always got tons of treats while there, from the waiting room to the exam room, thru procedures (e.g., accupuncture, etc.). I'd have her earn them, of course, but that was never a problem for her. So, I do believe you can work to change your dog's feelings about being at the vet's location.

I guess the biggest thing is just to relax with him and find a way to make the class fun for both of you. Only go as close to the gates and other equipment as he's comfortable with doing. Be upbeat and happy with him. Don't worry so much about the other class participants...everyone pays the admission price, and you just work at your own dog's pace. The only wrong thing you can do, really, is too push your dog to far when he's unsure. Just pay attention to him and move at his pace.

I think it's great that you're working so hard to try to find something to do with him that will be enjoyable.

If agility doesn't turn out to be his thing, perhaps you could try tracking or something else?

leih

Thanks for the suggestions. I will try different treats and to be more upbeat. I try getting him excited while there, but he hesitates when we hit the equipment. I will talk to the head trainer about bringing him to other classes to just hang out and i can work some obedience during that time.

I think he would like tracking since he is always smelling everything. I guess I just need to find what gets his drives up and makes him excited and happy. How would you suggest going about starting tracking, if you know? I will continue to work more and more with him on some of the things we are doing in class, and see if he becomes more comfortable doing the activities then maybe he won't get so anxious at class.

Thanks again!

 Quote: Keith Kaplan

I think he would like tracking since he is always smelling everything. I guess I just need to find what gets his drives up and makes him excited and happy. How would you suggest going about starting tracking, if you know? I will continue to work more and more with him on some of the things we are doing in class, and see if he becomes more comfortable doing the activities then maybe he won't get so anxious at class.

Thanks again!

Now you're cooking! The whole deal with dogs is finding what really makes them happy and doing those things.

If you think your dog might enjoy nosework kinds of things, let me recommend a book to you: Fun Nosework for Dogs, by Roy Hunter. There are a lot of different kinds of exercises and such in it that he gives very detailed instructions for. He also includes his own tracking how-to's and philosophy.

There are as many different ways to train tracking as there are people who track with their dogs , pretty much like everything else in the world of dogs.

My current favorite technique is by a guy named Armin Winkler. If you google Schutzhund Village, it will take you to the website for the Schutzhund club with which he's associated, and if you look under articles, there are a couple that explain his tracking training techniques in detail. He uses low value treats, for example, and spends a lot of time with the scent pads, where lots of other people use higher value treats and get to laying tracks and following footprints very quickly.

Unless you're thinking about competing, in which case, you need to be more careful about how you go about training (different venues use different tracking styles, for example), just do some googling, or use the search function on this site, and you'll find enough to get you started.

Have fun!

leih

Hi Keith,

Since you mentioned trying tracking with Flash, I thought I'd link you to this thread from a while ago. I love tracking and my dog does too, it maybe something worth a try with your dog.

Your getting excellent suggestions from others in this thread, too.

Beginning foot step tracking

Katie