Originally posted by mackie:
Last night he was chasing a cat when the cat turned around and faced him, growled at him and went into a fighting stance. My dog stopped and looked confused. After a few seconds the cat decided to turn around again and flee. My dog did not resume his chase. Is this a training issue or my dog lost his nerves?

No ... your dog didn't lose its nerve. The dog just got a wake up call & had to re-think its position when the cat decided to stop prey acting and behaved like the little predator it really is.

I have to agree with Ed and Richard on this one.

Is it possible to have prey drive and not to do harm to the prey. For example my dog has chased cats. For that matter any animal thats moving including a coyote. I do not encourage this behavior. When she plays with dogs all done in a dog park or fenced in yard her behavior is simliar. She just loves to stalk chase and play. Im calling this play drive. The other day I put my theory to work. I was shopping at petsmart with my dog and the cats room was open. All the cats are in cages so I brought my dog in to see her reaction. Not a hair raised just some curious sniffing and tail wagging. I"m convinced that her prey dirve is play drive and the end result would be disaster for my dog. Any opinions on play drive?

Couldn't resist...

Brave Cat

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Milt,

This type of play is based on prey drive. The dog is looking for the other animal to run so he can chse it. It is the chase that is fun. If this is a young dog it is going to be confused by the animal turning to fight. The fight aspect of your puppy's personality isn't kicking in yet. It will and at that point he will not stop and back off but continue to engage in the fight.

 Quote:

Originally posted by milt:
Is it possible to have prey drive and not to do harm to the prey.?

Prey drive in general consists of, and can be expressed by, a whole repertoire/variety of behaviors. You can make a whole list yourself. Basically prey drive is the drive to find, capture, kill and consume prey -- it is a basic, fundamental drive coming directly out of the survival instinct. An interesting thing about prey drive is that it can express itself by many different behaviors -- sometimes by a sequentially organized chain of behaviors and sometimes by an individual behavior like chasing. Because prey drive can be expressed and satisfied by individual (stand alone) behaviors, it is certainly possible for a dog to express prey drive and not do harm to the prey. Herding is a primary example.

When she plays with dogs all done in a dog park or fenced in yard her behavior is simliar. She just loves to stalk chase and play. I'm calling this play drive. . . . I'm convinced that her prey drive is play drive and the end result would be disaster for my dog. Any opinions on play drive?

IMO this is a very interesting question. Is play drive when expressed by prey behavior any different from actual prey drive or is it just a lower intensity (for want of a better word) of prey drive? What makes chasing another animal play and what makes it prey? The chase behavior looks the same. What makes biting another animal play and what makes it prey? They can look the same also. What makes fighting another animal play and what makes it prey? They can look and sound the same, too. The list can go on and on.

What pushes a dog "over the edge" (out of play) and into real prey? What prevents a dog from going "over the edge" (keeps the dog in play) and not engaging in real prey?

milt wrote: Is it possible to have prey drive and not to do harm to the prey. For example my dog has chased cats. For that matter any animal thats moving including a coyote. I do not encourage this behavior. When she plays with dogs all done in a dog park or fenced in yard her behavior is simliar. She just loves to stalk chase and play. Im calling this play drive.

LC: I think a major problem here is that you’ve taken two terms that are generally agreed upon and changed them. Prey drive has to do with the capturing and killing of prey. It’s usually visually stimulated. Play drive has to do with the dog’s desire to play with his pack mates. You’ve merged the two together and they don’t belong together.

Milt wrote: I was shopping at petsmart with my dog and the cats room was open. All the cats are in cages so I brought my dog in to see her reaction. Not a hair raised just some curious sniffing and tail wagging. I"m convinced that her prey dirve is play drive and the end result would be disaster for my dog. Any opinions on play drive?

LC: Some dogs realize that cats in cages 1. Can’t run and 2. Can’t be gotten to. And so prey drive was not invoked. So they were just interesting smells and shapes.

Ellen wrote: Prey drive in general consists of, and can be expressed by, a whole repertoire/variety of behaviors…An interesting thing about prey drive is that it can express itself by many different behaviors…it is certainly possible for a dog to express prey drive and not do harm to the prey. Herding is a primary example.

LC: Another example is the fact that many cats will play with their prey. Many of us have seen a cat play with a mouse, killing it by degrees then freeing it to run a short distance and then pouncing on it again. While this is play, it’s not play drive, it’s prey drive.

Ellen wrote: IMO this is a very interesting question. Is play drive when expressed by prey behavior any different from actual prey drive or is it just a lower intensity (for want of a better word) of prey drive?

LC: These are completely different and separate drives.

Ellen wrote: What makes chasing another animal play and what makes it prey?

LC: While there may be an element of prey in play that is invoked when one party runs away, it quickly turns back to play.

Ellen wrote: The chase behavior looks the same. What makes biting another animal play and what makes it prey?

LC: What makes it different is what’s in the dog’s mind at the instant he’s doing it. It’s not too hard to tell the difference between a play bite and one that involves killing and eating food.

Ellen wrote: They can look the same also.

LC: I think the resemblance is only superficial. Try videotaping the action and looking at it over and over. That makes it easier to spot the difference.

While I agree that prey & play are different drives (motivations), I'm not so sure that I agree that their resemblance to each other is merely superficial.

Puppies learn predatory skills by playing with one another and older dogs keep their predatory skills sharpened by playing with each other also. IMO play is inhibited prey behavior and pure prey is not inhibited. Play and prey are different but IMO their resemblance is more than superficial because they are related in function -- one is the real thing, the other is practice for the real thing.

I am frustrated with my 2 year old pup. He chases my 2 cats, he's too fast for me to catch and teach not to chase my cats. He will not pay any attention to my cats if I were to hold them in front of his nose. Why? Any suggestions? My one 10 year old cat just hates him. It is interesting that my dog will not bark at the younger cat as where he will the older one. Maybe because the younger cat just lays there under my pup on top of him and does not fight my dog, where as my older cat just trys to flee and hisses at him. thanks help

Hi Jennifer,

My first suggestion would be to start a new thread...this one is 8 years old.

My second suggestion would be to keep a line on your pup inside the house so you can stop him and correct him for fixating on the cats. Keep him tethered to you.