I have a question for you Lou,

I can understand reteaching the old commands with the e-collar but do you use the same command?

Kane knows "here" "platz" "settle down" "sit"... is it ok to use those same words? I imagine time is crucial at this point since the dog knows the command and will think hes getting a stim for something he already knows?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Sorry if I seem confused.

You give the command "sit" for example at the same time to hit the button and then release as soon as he sits. For a dog that already knows "sit" will this confuse him? (taking into account a dog will be confused to begin with, since new to e-collar)

I guess its like back to basics? Like the dog doesn't know anything?

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your input! The deal with the lady on the MSN board is that she's one of those people that humanizes her dog -- kind of like the lady that just walked by my window with her husky puppy and 4 year old child in a double stroller. *rolling eyes* The reason she wants the ecollar is because when she comes home from work, the dog is so excited that it comes running up and actually jumps on her car. I don't mean jumping up at the window, I mean actually jumping up on the hood and roof of the car. She thinks that she can use the ecollar to stop this behavior. I referred her to your site because I think she needs to re-evaluate that thought, and because the dog just needs training, rather than just using the ecollar to zap her when she comes running up to the car or whatever.



Now, back to my own dog. You don't think that trying to re-teach her the commands using the ecollar as a guide would be confusing to her, since she was first introduced to electrical stim via the invisible fence? I'm afraid that because she first learned that when she felt stim, it meant to turn around and go back into the yard, that if I tried using it in the manner that you start dogs out with (which is what I did with my foster dog, the dobie/hound, who did excellently with it) she won't understand what is going on or something. I don't know what I'm trying to say here. Can you tell? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

... By the way... Im sorry for butting into your post. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I didn't mean to change the subject or anything. I was just wondering how training works if the dog already knows the command. Sorry if that seemed rude of me.

Chastity wrote: I can understand reteaching the old commands with the e-collar but do you use the same command?

LC: If the dog already knows the command VERY WELL, yes you can use it.

Chastity wrote: You give the command "sit" for example at the same time to hit the button and then release as soon as he sits. For a dog that already knows "sit" will this confuse him? (taking into account a dog will be confused to begin with, since new to e-collar)

LC: I'd suggest that you NOT do this. Teach the commands as if the dog didn't know anything using the protocols as they're described on my website. If you do as you suggest and the dog doesn't sit, rather he runs from the place because he thinks something is biting him, you'll release the button. You've just taught him that the word "sit" means RUN. Doing it like this eliminates the chance for confusion because he's on leash and you guide him into the behavior that makes the stim stop.

Kristen Cabe wrote: The reason she wants the ecollar is because when she comes home from work, the dog is so excited that it comes running up and actually jumps on her car. I don't mean jumping up at the window, I mean actually jumping up on the hood and roof of the car. She thinks that she can use the ecollar to stop this behavior.

LC: Well she can probably stop that behavior with the Ecollar but it's an awful lot of money to spend when she can take a week and teach the dog to sit on command.

Kristen wrote: Now, back to my own dog. You don't think that trying to re-teach her the commands using the ecollar as a guide would be confusing to her, since she was first introduced to electrical stim via the invisible fence?

LC: Yes it will. But that confusion will only last for a day or two. She'll think that the low level stim, where she first feels the stim is the same as the charged fence. She'll probably jump and yip, just like when she hit the hot wire. But we know that it's not the same. It will take a while for her to learn that it's not the same. As soon as she does you can start the training. I've worked with dogs that have had high level stims, in fact a few that had just been to a snake proofing seminar where the highest levels of stim that an Ecollar has are used. I couldn't get any training done in the Chastity wrote: I can understand reteaching the old commands with the e-collar but do you use the same command?

LC: If the dog already knows the command VERY WELL, yes you can use it.

Chastity wrote: You give the command "sit" for example at the same time to hit the button and then release as soon as he sits. For a dog that already knows "sit" will this confuse him? (taking into account a dog will be confused to begin with, since new to e-collar)

LC: I'd suggest that you NOT do this. Teach the commands as if the dog didn't know anything using the protocols are described on my website. If you do as you suggest and the dog doesn't sit, rather he runs from the place because he thinks something is biting him, you'll release the button. You've just taught him that "sit" means RUN. This eliminates the chance for confusion because he's on leash and you guide him into the behavior that makes the stim stop.

Kristen Cabe wrote: The reason she wants the ecollar is because when she comes home from work, the dog is so excited that it comes running up and actually jumps on her car. I don't mean jumping up at the window, I mean actually jumping up on the hood and roof of the car. She thinks that she can use the ecollar to stop this behavior.

LC: Well she can probably stop that behavior with the Ecollar but it's an awful lot of money to spend when she can take a week and teach the dog to sit on command.

Kristen wrote: Now, back to my own dog. You don't think that trying to re-teach her the commands using the ecollar as a guide would be confusing to her, since she was first introduced to electrical stim via the invisible fence?

LC: Yes it will. But that confusion will only last for a day or two. She'll think that the low level stim, where 's she first feels the stim is the same as the charged fence. She'll probably jump and yip, just like when she hit the hot wire. But we know that it's not the same. It will take a while for her to learn that it's not the same. But as soon as she does you can start the training. I've worked with dogs that have had high level stims, in fact a few that had just been to a snake proofing seminar where the highest levels of stim that an Ecollar has are used. I couldn't get any training done in the short time that a seminar affords but I did manage to get a start on reacclimatizing.

Kristen wrote: I'm afraid that because she first learned that when she felt stim, it meant to turn around and go back into the yard, that if I tried using it in the manner that you start dogs out with (which is what I did with my foster dog, the dobie/hound, who did excellently with it) she won't understand what is going on or something.

LC: That's a possibility. But since she's on a Flexi she won't have that option. You'll press the button, she'll try to "turn around and go back into the yard" and she won't be able to. Keeping the button down, you'll pull her towards her and the stim will stop. It will probably take less than a dozen stims before she catches on. I'd also take her away from the house to do this so she's not tempted to "go back into the yard."
-30 minutes that a seminar affords but I did manage to get a start on reacclimatizing.

Kristen wrote: I'm afraid that because she first learned that when she felt stim, it meant to turn around and go back into the yard, that if I tried using it in the manner that you start dogs out with (which is what I did with my foster dog, the dobie/hound, who did excellently with it) she won't understand what is going on or something.

LC: That's a possibility. But since she's on a Flexi she won't have that option. You'll press the button, she'll try to "turn around and go back into the yard" and she won't be able to. Keeping the button down, you'll pull her towards you and the stim will stop. It will probably take less than a dozen stims before she catches on. I'd also take her away from the house to do this so she's not tempted to "go back into the yard."

You copied and pasted, didn't you Lou? lol! That's ok, I figured out what you wrote anyway.

I think maybe next week, or week end if it's still raining and cold next week, I may start working with Gypsy with the e-collar just like she didn't know any commands. One more question though: Do I really need to start out with the 'recall' since she is never off-leash outside the yard anyway, and already knows to walk nicely without pulling and also how to heel? Won't that just make her afraid to do her own thing in the yard and just want to stay by my side? Also, I use the pager as a recall, in case she cannot hear me tell her to come, or if I am not able to or whatever; so she already knows that when she feels the collar vibrate, whether I actually verbally command her to come or not, it means she is to come to me.

As always, I appreciate your input, and Chastity, don't apologize for jumping in! This is a message board after all! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />