I was recently in a discussion about this topic. Someone has a 9 week old puppy, who had already a bit of obedience training. With eye contact the owner started two days ago. Some trainer had told him, that in a distraction free room, he could reach easily 60 seconds already.

The owner said, this seemed for him like an eternity. I agreed. My opinion: There are perhaps puppies who learn keeping eye contact for 60 seconds so quickly. I don't know, but for the average dog it seems to me asked too much.

The trainer also claimed, for an
AVERAGE dog it was normal to reach a continuous eye contact of 10 minutes without any interruption within about 4 months.

What do you think about this? I simply can not believe it, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Apart from what is possible or not, I have the impression that training this for such a long time must me deadly boring for the poor dog.

Unless I'm totally missing something, I just don't understand what that kind of training would accomplish.

That said, some of the first things I've learned that should be trained into a dog is to teach them to look at you in response to hearing their name. This would also be one of the initial parts of marker training also, in which you "charge the mark" with a dog.

But, training to maintain eye contact for minutes at a time just on general principle, I don't see the point.

10 minutes of continual , focused eye contact for a 4 m / o pup ?

That may or not be true , but what ever . . . . . Boooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnngggggggg .

There are a helluva lot better , more productive and more fun things to be doing with a pup that age .

I'd be standing there counting up to 600 wondering when the fun was going to start . . . Imagine how the dog feels .

Oh, thanks Greg, I'm so relieved. I've done it that way you describe. I have to admit, that in the beginning I sometimes asked a bit too much. But I think, we can see this on the animal's reaction and then we have to make it easier, so it can gain more release marks and rewards.I think this important especially in the learning phase.

We also have to change the duration in order not to become too predictable for the dog and with that be boring again.

And I agree fully: I don't see any reason, why I should bore my animals to death. Like this I would at least kill every motivation for interaction with me.


LOL, Ian! That's exactly how I think. I too would use your "words".

Yes we have to think about the animal first and observe it and ourselves well. I'm not talking about mistakes, which happen probably to every one, but it makes me awfully angry to hear such things from so called professionals.

And if dog owners, who would like to learn, ask for my opinion, it is just the opinion of a person with a little experience. Then they have (which I can understand) the tendençy to believe to that "prof".

That's why I like Leerburg and this forum so much. Even if I'm wrong in something, I always get good advices how to make it better.

No reason to push that much time on a pup that young, even one destined for competition.

To many want instant gratification and immediate results.

I like to see a sit, down and come by the time a pup is 12-13 wks old but I'm in no hurry to extend time.

Push them till they break and you've taught then they can.

Some believe that a dog needs to make mistakes in order to learn.

I don't!

Time is as reward worthy as the behavior itself so why create the situation where the dog needs correction!?

There will be "time" enough for that in the future.

Take YOUR time!

Thanks Bob for all that suppoort. I'm surely taking my time. I see no reason why I should spoil the happy sessions with my dogs with asking so much.

Of course it is good for them to learn different things, but within THEIR limits. The best off all dog training or walking or playing is to see how they come jumping full of joy, when they know: Now we will do something together. To see, how eagerly they learn.

I don't need a champ in enduring boredeom! (New dog sport)

For Schutzhund dogs, there are a couple of practical reasons for teaching a beginning puppy to make eye contact before you start training obedience. However, the durations mentioned in the OP are absurd. We only ask that a puppy maintain eye contact for a few seconds. By the time the puppy is a year old, he will be maintaining eye contact for five seconds during dumbbell training and finishes, and he will have to focus on the handler during long downs and pickups.

My dog is 8yo, and I never make her maintain eye contact for more than 15-20 seconds when we are practicing.

Christina, eye contact is one of the few behaviors that I find prudent to free shape. I introduce marker training to puppies at 8-9 weeks by first, charging the mark, then encouraging eye contact and marking without a command. The puppy catches on almost immediately, so by the third session or so you can start building tiny bits of duration by just withholding the mark for a second or two. By the third session I am also luring and marking the sit and trying to lure the down.

When I started in AKC OB comp in the late 70s early 80s you hardly ever saw a dog with the strong eye contact seen now.

My first AKC comp dog, a Kerry Blue Terrier would watch my feet and he never lost points over that.

I think some people think their dog isn't watching them if they aren't staring them in the face.

For competition I guess it still looks.....impressive?!

Hi, Duane. Yes, that's how I trained my dogs too. I also think eye contact, focus, is very important. I'm training them continuosly on duration in babysteps.

My dogs haven't learned it as puppies only about two years later, when I took Leerburg courses. There they never exaggerate, all of it makes sense.

It's clear that in dog sports, they will ask for more. For me it is necessary to keep them focussed on me especially during training sessions. On walks too, but then I don't ask for eye contact without interruption. I ask it (or try to succeeed with it) only for a short distance or in certain situations, eg when people pass by. But not for 10 minutes non stop!

Hi, Bob. I agree fully. For dog sports everything is different and I think in different sports they also have different rules. I don't know much about this. As far as I have read about or watched on videos, they keep their dogs focused on them by engaging with them and having fun. They are gradually accustomed to distractions and motivated for keeping focus.

But a staring competition like in that course??? Imagine if I had to stare at someone without break, I'd always lose. I'd break out in laughter already after 1 minute or even earlier.