Mike you have a good post here. You are VERY LUCKY, you could be facing a law suit and the loss of home owners insurance and possibly your dog.

Learning to handle a dog is as important as the actual dog training. My advice would be to either keep these dogs in eye site, on a line, on a leash and behind an in-ground fence. DO NOT RELY 100% ON THE IN-GROUND FENCE.

IF these were my dogs I would have e-collars on the dog in this kind of scenario and be 110% sure I had eyes on the dog and control at every level of distraction

Maybe my GSD is just enough for me to handle, but I would never have both of my dogs in my front yard with ME, let alone my wife who doesn't really get into the whole dog training thing. My yard is much like the way you described yours.

Anytime I am in the front yard (no fence) with my dog, he ALWAYS has the ecollar on. He is well trained and I've never had to used the ecollar in these situations but I'm sure that one time he didn't have it on, I'd regret it.

My wife never takes the dogs out like that because, she knows, she is not comfortable enough with controlling the dog off-lead. For myself, I ALWAYS have my dog with me when I'm mowing or working on the car or whatever. I feel you just never know when you might need'm so be prepared. I watch him very closely, sometimes if I'm too busy I'll just put him in the house, I won't risk it. A couple of times he stood up and started after a bike or skateboard but after about 3-4 paces it processes threw my mind what's happening and I give him the stay command and he stops in his tracks. I only have him out there for security in the first place, but I have to be very diligent, otherwise I might regret it.

Wheather he will or won't, I assume he will bite, that probably keeps me out of court more often than not.

I agree with Ed. Never rely %100 on an inground fence. They are great systems to have and usually much more cost effective but dogs can and will go threw them given the right circumstances.

Another perspective in regards to keeping your dogs unsecured in the front yard. Think of this from the point of view of the people on the street. They don't know you, they don't know your dogs, all they see is two big intimidating looking dogs with the ability to come after them and not much to stop them. That intimidation on its own has no place in public streets. No matter how well behaved your dogs are, I think out of fairness and common decency towards the public, they should be some how leashed, or tied down, etc if hanging out with you in front of the house.

How many times have you heard the owner of an attacking dog say "oh he would never do that" or "he has never done that before!" How much comfort is that? I personally have seen too many people who think they have their dog figured out and under control while that is obviously not the case.

Some people are just plain and simple afraid of dogs. No amount of reasoning will ever convince them otherwise. They have just as much right though to walk the streets and not be intimidated.

Ok, I'm gonna call bullsh*t here.

You said-
“Think of this from the point of view of the people on the street. They don't know you, they don't know your dogs, all they see is two big intimidating looking dogs with the ability to come after them and not much to stop them.”
I say, EXACTLY!

You said-
“That intimidation on its own has no place in public streets. No matter how well behaved your dogs are, I think out of fairness and common decency towards the public, they should be some how leashed, or tied down, etc if hanging out with you in front of the house.”

I say,
-It is not a public street, it is MY yard.
-“When” you are a victim of crime, I want you to tell the criminal, he’s not being fair.
-Let me ask you this; How is my dog supposed to protect me (do his job) when he is tied down to something? I think if it was up to you, I should put my dog in a crate while I’m away so if anyone breaks in my house they won’t get hurt by the dog right?

You said-
“How many times have you heard the owner of an attacking dog say "oh he would never do that" or "he has never done that before!" How much comfort is that?”

I say, Just from you using the words “attacking dog” you display your ignorance far better than I ever could. And again, it’s not my job to make people feel comfortable, It’s my job to make it VERY UNCOMFORTALBE to any who might think they are going to harm myself, family and property. So, you are right about that, it’s not much comfort to anyone buy myself.

You said-
“I personally have seen too many people who think they have their dog figured out and under control while that is obviously not the case.”

I say, I agree with you. In addition, I doubt that you have ever seen a dog with the level of training we “in general” are discussing on this forum. I’m just guessing here, but I would say, the worst behaved dog on this board, is much more controlled and obedient than any dog you have ever been in the company of. Contrary to what you believe (or assume) most of us are not walking around with vicious uncontrolled monsters that we beaten and starved so they would “attack” everyone and anything.

You said-
“Some people are just plain and simple afraid of dogs. No amount of reasoning will ever convince them otherwise.”

I say-EXACTLY! And many criminals are afraid of dogs. AND, it’s not my job to help anyone get over their fears or pacify anyone.

You said-
“ They have just as much right though to walk the streets and not be intimidated”

I say, Not be intimidated by who? I myself am intimidated by some people I come across in my world, should I ask them to go back in the house until I pass? My boss intimidates me, should I ask him to resign? Or maybe I should just deal with it. Maybe if I seem an intimidating person or animal I should go a different direction, or I should proceed with caution.

Basically you are saying that I need to make people “feel” safe when they are walking down my side walk. That is the bottom line isn’t it? Well let me tell you this, not only do I not have the ability to make people feel a certain way, it’s also not my responsibility.
My only responsibility is to ensure that someone walking down my street is %100 safe from my animal. How I accomplish that is of no concern to you.
If you go back and read through your post, You can find a common thread, you use words such as; intimidation, fairness, common decency, reasoning, comfort, afraid, and rites. You are talking about feelings and emotions, period.

So a well controlled dog has no place out on my *own* property, ie, my front yard?

Well, I'll tell ya what there Elizabeth - I have a mortal fear of rose bushes. No amount of convincing me will reduce my fear. And I have just as much right to walk down the street and not be intimidated...
Sounds stupid?
Yep!
Just like what you posted.

QUOTE: The moral of the story: be in control. END

Mike Arnold, I tip my hat to you. Excellent and responsible dog trainers who recognize that they can become over-confident are good for all of us. It would be good if we all posted our almost-mistakes more often. Mike Arnold and Ed Frawley have skillfully reminded us all that we are responsible for having every backup in place at all times.

(And no, I don't think we are responsible for assuaging the fears of people about what might happen should they decide to trespass on our own property.)