Well, I just couldn't decide where to put this, so I guess that I will put it in General Conversation -- it could have gone in the Prong Collar forum or the PETA forum, but, well maybe it will be more noticeable here.

As some of you may recall, my dog of choice is the Tibetan mastiff. We have two, Elvis and Misty. On Saturday, my wife and I decided we would take the TM's and go to our local strip mall to have coffee at Starbucks. There's a nice outdoor sitting area where dogowners often hang out. It's great socialization: we make friends, our dogs make friends (human) and learn to tolerate other (leashed) dogs in close proximity, a lot of kids get exposed to big friendly dogs, and the coffee is pretty good (if expensive), too.

It was crowded, so I stood off to the side with my boy Elvis (~105 pounds, on his way to ~130 at 26 inches in another couple of years) in a down-stay to wait for a table while my wife and Misty walked around. After about five or ten minutes, two women (apparently mother and daughter) approach me, and reach toward Elvis to pet him (not that they asked my permission, you understand). Elvis broke the stay, so I put my foot on the leash, said "No, Elvis, down!" and put him back in the down.

The older woman looked at me with shock, and asked "Why did you do that?"

I reply, "Because he broke a stay."

"So, he's a dog. Let him act like a dog."

Reaching again (again, didn't ask my permission). Elvis breaks the stay again; I put him back down again.

"How can you do that to him?!"

I respond: "This is obedience training. I put him in a stay, and he is expected to stay until I release him."

Younger woman: "I can't stand to watch this kind of cruelty!" (Walks off).

Older woman: "How old is he?"

"Two-and-a-half."

"You mean that you have a 2-1/2 year-old dog that is untrained? That's terrible! What is the matter with you? I have a cat that knows what 'No' means. All I have to do is say it and she stops what she's doing. You don't have to be cruel."

"Ma'am, do you understand anything about dog obedience training? It takes time, and it is about the safety of the dog. He needs to learn to do what I tell him so that he doesn't go places or do things that would put him in danger. It would be cruel to let something happen to him because he was not fully trained."

Woman reaching down (again, no permission) -- this time Elvis does not break the stay. Petting him, she sees the prong collar, and says, "This collar is excruciating for him. How can you do that to an animal?"

"Ma'am, you are ill-informed on that subject. They are not at all painful."

Standing to leave, she says, "No, I am very well-informed; I KNOW EVERYTHING! His maker is my maker." Woman stomps off to go into Starbucks.

A table opens up, and my wife and I sit down. Two young (twenty-something) mothers with infants in strollers are sitting at the next table.

One of them turns to me, and says, "Excuse me, sir."

(I wince thinking about what I am going to hear next.) "Yes?"

"You are the most patient man I have ever seen. If that had been me, I would have told my dog to chew her damn arm off. I was just hoping she'd try to get someone else involved in that so I could tell her what an ignorant bitch she is."

"Why, thank you." (Slight blush on my part.)

I can tell that this woman's kid is going to be raised right. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

After that we had a very pleasant time with our new friends, although the omniscient woman came out to give us the evil eye before she finally left. The babies got drooled on, but neither they nor their mothers seemed to mind. Who knew that a two-month old would like dogs that much?

Bryan Veis

Bryan,
Stupid people are stupid people, and you did the right thing trying to educate them, but I don't even waste, my time, I just look at them like I'm going to pull their eyes out, and don't say a word to them, that usually ends any potential conversation. I mean this in a nice way, some of you guys give these people way to much attention.

I've never met a cat that always listened <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...that is enough evidence for me that these people were not only stupid, but liars too!

I, too, have given up on explaining myself to people who question me or my dog...just a waste of my breath and gets my temper going.

hahaha but its still amusing reading posts like this.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I hate people who don't ASK! People also seem to think that because you are talking to them, they can ignore the big "Do Not Pet" sign on the dogs harness.

My poor dog hasn't been out into any busy social places in quite a while simply because I don't want to deal with the people that will be there.

Way to go. I have had acquantances question the use of of a prong and reinforcing obedience w/ my ex's 85 lb. Amer. Bulldog when out and about. Instead of the long story, I would hand them the 6' lead and start walking away (when I was in a safe place to do it). After the dog would drag them flat footed 15' I would take it back and ask what they thought would happen when a cat ran across the street with a car coming if I was just using a flat collar and didn't enforce obedience.
They agreed with the method after that.

I never expect too much intelligence out of people willing to pay $4-5 bucks for a cup of coffee <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Actually, I found it more amusing than anything else. Maybe it's because I'm a lawyer. I do conflict for a living -- being verbally abused is all in a day's work for me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I've run into a lot of know-it-alls in my life, but, seriously, I've never run into anyone with the chutzpah to say aloud, "I know everything!" The amusement value of that moment was priceless -- besides, at that point, all of the bystanders who might otherwise have taken her seriously knew that she was a complete horse's ass. Surely, no one could be so unselfconsciously narcissistic as to fail to be embarrassed the moment after saying that -- well, maybe some people might be that clueless. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> So, to the extent there was an argument (if you want to call it that), I won.

Anyway, I wasn't really wasting my time; I was training Elvis to deal with distractions. Besides, I didn't want to miss out on the next available table. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Bryan Veis

 Quote:

I never expect too much intelligence out of people willing to pay $4-5 bucks for a cup of coffee <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey! Let's not get personal here! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Way to go. I have had acquantances question the use of of a prong and reinforcing obedience w/ my ex's 85 lb. Amer. Bulldog when out and about. Instead of the long story, I would hand them the 6' lead and start walking away (when I was in a safe place to do it). After the dog would drag them flat footed 15' I would take it back and ask what they thought would happen when a cat ran across the street with a car coming if I was just using a flat collar and didn't enforce obedience.
They agreed with the method after that.

Thanks. I gotta try that some time.

Bryan

Wow! That had my temper going for all the stupid people out there also until I read the part about the lady coming up to thank you for being patient. That was cool!
Oh yeah, when are they going to start making prong collars for cats? Mine still doesn't know what "No" means. I'd like to see that lady train my feline.