Hi Guys and Gals,

I am new here and need some help.

First Background:

I have a 7 yr Old Siberian Husky Female Not Fixed Inside dog. Around the time she was 1 year old she showed signs of aggression or attitude towards me, (I.e.: laying on the floor if I bumped her getting of the couch she would do a low growl) Finally after a few months of it, I got tired of the attitude one night and well not really knowing any better at the time the dog got a old fashion attitude adjustment from me. After that I had no problems with her, but she lived with my 13 yrd old Siberian and grew up 4 or so years together she would beat up on the 13 year old. It was if the 13 year old got with in X amount of feet she would do a low growl sometime show her teeth, and maybe jump the 13 year old cut her ears some it was a quick snap snap snap and it was over. Sometime if the 13 year old wanted attention and even got near or touched the 7 year old she would go off, other times she would low growl and leave. They lived together in a 16 x 70 for 4 years uncaged and the 7 year old never did any serious damage to her. Myself I was thinking the 13 year would eventually beat the snot out of the 7 year and it would end but it never did.

Now:

I had to put the 13 year old down due to age problems a year ago, we have since moved to a large house and large yard. But now I have a 15 month baby girl at home. The 7 year old had showed no signs of interest or whatever in my baby girl, until she started walking. Now Cheyenne ( the 7 year old Husky) will avoid Sydnee ( the 15 Month old Girl) if she comes near her at times, If she runs with in a 5 foot general area Cheyenne has started growling under her breath and showing her teeth. This started a month ago or so, I had been calling Cheyenne to my lap and getting Sydnee there and when Cheyenne would low growl towards her I would tell her No and pop her on the head (you know Not hard or anything) well needless to say Sydnee (being my first child started copying me and well I had to stop).. Well after a few week Cheyenne Snapped at Sydnee we are not sure of the cause or reason other than Sydnee was near her, We did here the low growl My wife called Cheyenne’s name, heard Cheyenne on her turned the corner but it was over she had cut her nose some, not deep mind ya, and scratched abrasion the side of her head. My wife said Sydnee was on her knees and Cheyenne was standing over her. I was upstairs come running down when I heard it all and went ballistic on the dog. It took I could do not the take the dog outside and put her down, seeing my first child bleeding and knowing there was no real reason for such an action from my dog really really really got my blood pressure up. All in all the cuts were not deep not scaring. So after that I put Cheyenne in the crate outside till I could calm down some and make a decision. And now this is where we are:

1. Sydnee is not scared of Cheyenne, the morning after the incident, Sydnee put her hand in Cheyenne’s cage (under supervision of course) and Cheyenne licked it. I had to test to make sure Sydnee wasn’t terrified of the dog before I made any other decisions as to where to keep the dog or not.

2. Called my vet, asked if fixing the dog would solve this, answer was no.

3. Email Ed here and asked his opinion if it could be fixed, I did not go into as much detail as I have here.

4. Called a local Trainer had her come over asses the situation and got her opinion.

5. Read some more on the Internet on Dog aggression towards children

6. Got Ed’s, order both DVD’s not here yet as of posting.

7. Read some more on the Internet on Dog aggression towards children.


The Following has been changed in the house hold:

1. Cheyenne now has a Crate and her bed in it in the house. She is no longer to sleep in the bed room with us she now has to sleep in her crate. If she seems nervous around Sydnee she is put in her crate.
2. Cheyenne now eats last and is in her crate before all meals, she used to eat with us or clean up as we go when we were feeding Sydnee.
3. If Cheyenne come around US while we are playing with Sydnee wanting attention we either ignore her or she is told to sit and we play with her when we get ready.
4. Cheyenne toys are no longer available for Cheyenne to bring to us at will, they are now my toys and I let Cheyenne play with them when I want to play.

With this being said, Cheyenne does listen to commands, she will sit when told too and stay is simi ok not great we are working on that. She will go to her crate when we tell her too. Sydnee is not allowed around the crate at all. Cheyenne will take treats from Sydnee ( If Sydnee doesn’t eat it yea she ate one before I could get it the other night, I am not sure what is worst a dog bite or 15 month old latched on your finger). We throw ball with Cheyenne with holding Sydnee and let Sydnee give the treats. We are working trying to Socialize them better but watching like a Hawk now than we did before.

Cheyenne is not a Bad dog; she seems nervous or scared if Sydnee come near or in her general direction. She is unsure of her I assume. Cheyenne will get a “Go to Hell” look in her at times when we are working on her letting Sydnee pet her. Cheyenne will move or take herself out of the situation if Sydnee is coming near her. She will even leave her food bowl if Sydnee is walking that way if it is when Cheyenne is eating.

Basically I was looking at this as a Dominance issue where as Cheyenne was trying to Dominate over Sydnee. Per the Trainer that came by she thinks it is a fear Issue, that Cheyenne is not quite sure weather Sydnee will hurt her or not. So all of what I have done is to one try to demote Cheyenne in the Pack as well as work on her trusting Sydnee.


My question to all of you is, Have I diagnosed this right and am the steps I am taking right? Do you think this can be solved and Cheyenne and Sydnee can live in Harmony?

Read the article I wrote - on how to prevent dog bites in children. You need to follow this information and you need to do the work in our DVD (which will be back from being pressed tomorrow) Dealing with Dominant and Aggressive Dogs. http://leerburg.com/301.htm

You are gambling with your childs life here. You either need to change your ways of living with this dog or deal with the consequences of your decision.

Hey Ed I understand what your saying , But am I asking is this fear or dominance. I don't want to ruin the dog by correcting one thing and it is another.

Well, I definately encourage you to follow Ed's advice and in addition, here is my 2 cents worth. You are dealing with a dominant dog, but I think at this point, you have also created some fear in that dog in reguards to the child. By correcting the dog by hitting it, slapping, etc. you have caused it to associate your child with the physical pain of correction. The dog is trying to avoid the child and, in its way of thiking, the pain; by walking away anytime the kid comes near. Again, I would follow Ed's advice to the letter. If you feel the trainer that came out can help you, you may also benefit from having the trainer watch the DVD with you as well as having him/her read Ed's articles so that you can be approaching this with your trainer understanding how you want things done.

My non-expert opinion:

 Quote:

So all of what I have done is to one try to demote Cheyenne in the Pack as well as work on her trusting Sydnee.

The part above in bold is a dangerous waste of time! Devote that time to keeping them separate.

Dominance and fear can coexist. The appropriate correction for dominance aggression is the same as the appropriate correction for fear aggression. Get one of these collars!

This is dominance. With that said a dog bite from a dominat dog is just as serious as a dog bite from a fear based dog.

When a dog bites a child (for any reason) it is very close to the "long green mile". I strongly recommend you do as I say in the article and in the dominant dog DVD - force the sake of your child.

I agree with you Ian and while I am in no way qualified to advise you about the dog and there are many that are on this site, I feel I am partly regarding the child. My dogs were brought into my house as puppies with small children and a toddler already there, who are now 9, 5 and 14 months and they knew from day one that they were higher pack members so to speak. My adult dogs are now 4 years old and have never shown any aggression to any human of any age but I would still never turn my back on them for a second when they're together (not so much with my 9 year old)and if my 14 month old is toddling about freely then the dogs are put in another room or in their crates. I just don't think it's worth the risk and I'd NEVER be able to forgive myself if something did happen. 9/10 it's the toddler that will have done something and the dog would immediately get the reprimand and blame. I too love my dogs and children but there are many times when they should be separate. If I were you I'd only allow your child to be in contact with the dog when you have your full attention on them both and IMO would not allow little fingers through the crate wires.
Good luck, follow Ed's advice and I'm sure things will turn out fine <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When a dog bites a child (for any reason) it is very close to the "long green mile".

Couldn't agree more. Been there, done that. My dog is NEVER allowed near kids, especially toddlers. I am not at all an expert in aggression, but I am not at all surprised that your dog started to be agressive towards the baby when she started walking. Toddlers are very irritating to dogs in general, and your dog was allowed to be dominant with your old dog for years, so she has certain expectations.

I think you are misunderstanding me and the dog. I understand that, you can’t see the dog nor can you see how the dog acts around the child. I totally understand the serious of the situation, I am not “oh it was a one time thing” or “Oh it won’t happen again”. Yes the dog was 3 feet from the blue sleep juice. Now, that being said, Ed I have gotten your DVD on obedience and your aggression DVD I assume is on the way which is fine. Sure this is a problem that should have never happened. Now that being said, if the dog wanted to hurt Sydnee I do believe it would have happened then. At least that is what I have been told; a dog knows where its teeth are and how to use them. We have an outside cat the dog will play with the cat; it has never attacked nor hurt the cat in over 4 years. Hell the cat will come up behind her and swat at her back legs playing. The dog will take treats from Sydnee with ease; she is very gentle even if Sydnee is not cooperating at opening her hand she will wait.

Look this happened last Thursday morning, since then we have made leaps and bounds in as far as supervision, controlling the environment. To me this is a sticky situtation, I can’t teach Sydnee to understand the dogs signs at this time. But I can teach the dog to be more tolerating of Sydnee and make her more easy being around Sydnee. Sydnee knows that she is not allowed around Cheyenne’s crate, do I not watch Sydnee like a hawk if she is in that general, and Of course I do. To be honest, the supervision now for the past week has been really mentally draining on me. But with all this said, Cheyenne has gotten more attention now that this has happened than before. As far as, more one on one and more us and Sydnee. Why I say leaps and bounds, Cheyenne will allow Sydnee to touch her without pulling away (under supervision of course). Before she wouldn’t let Sydnee get near her, she was bad nervous, is she still nervous yes, as bad no. Cheyenne used to compete for attention when I was playing with Sydnee , does she still try not as bad, if she does she is told to sit and I continue playing with Sydnee until I am done then I pay Cheyenne some attention when I am ready. Cheyenne used to circle Sydnee’s highchair for food, Now she is told to get in her crate (door left open) until everyone is done eating (to be honest this was the easiest thing changed so far). Cheyenne is not allowed to sleep in the bedroom with us or not allowed in the bedroom at this point so far. She knows this understands this, does she still test that boundary yes, is she told to sit or stay or no yes. But an example of progress, Sydnee has a play room about a 10 x 10 all her toys are in there, that is her room. Lots of noise and banging, quick movements ect. Ect. Sydnee was done with her bath, which is like her second wind before bed for a few hours. So I was in the room, the wife in the room and Sydnee was in the room playing. Cheyenne was in the living room, laying down for a bit then walked to the door to the play room and was begging for attention. The wife and I paid her no attention at all, we waited, Sydnee was still playing Cheyenne would walk up to the doorway wait look funny and leave she did this a few times.. And finally decided if she wanted to visit with us she had to come in the room. This was a first for her neither the wife nor me were playing with Sydnee, Sydnee was doing her own thing. Cheyenne came in sat down beside the Wife and Sydnee now Cheyenne didn’t stay long, but for her this was a first, she made the decision to come into Sydnee’s room to visit with us with Sydnee being loud and wide open. Do I see this as an improvement? Yes, the dog weighed the do I want to be around Sydnee bad enough to visit with US. Is the problem solved? By no means, has it improved from last Thursday Yes.

I came here for some advice, Locking the dog up when Sydnee is running around, is an option, Hell if I am going to take the dog out of the situation rather than work the situation why don’t I just put the dog outside in a pen totally ruin the dog by kicking her out of the family pack. To me that is nothing short of putting the dog down. Is my child’s safety more important than the dog? Yes. But I am giving the Dog a chance to learn and live with Sydnee. Cheyenne knows I am “GOD” in her world, she has no problem with that. But Cheyenne does not understand Sydnee out ranks her, nor does she under she will feel “God’s wraith” for showing aggression or dominance towards Sydnee. I am asking for some training advice on how to make Cheyenne understand her place and what is expected of her around Sydnee and with Sydnee. This is the most knowledgeable place I found on dog aggression towards children.

Derrick,

Please re-read your posts.

“Well after a few week Cheyenne Snapped at Sydnee we are not sure of the cause or reason other than Sydnee was near her, We did here the low growl My wife called Cheyenne’s name, heard Cheyenne on her turned the corner but it was over she had cut her nose some, not deep mind ya, and scratched abrasion the side of her head.”

“Now that being said, if the dog wanted to hurt Sydnee I do believe it would have happened then. At least that is what I have been told; a dog knows where its teeth are and how to use them.”

OK, when a dog draws blood from a baby, she HAS hurt the child, IMO. Remember that this dog DID hurt your older dog on several occasions. You have a dog that bites. I very strongly believe that the next step with your child is a real bite. In any case, you are surely tempting fate here. In addition to the obvious physical risks, if the dog does bite the baby, she may well be afraid of dogs for her entire life.

As I stated in an earlier post, I am not an expert in dog behavior, but I have had a number of dogs over the years, and have raised 3 children. One of our dogs is aggressive, and we have had to deal with some of these issues. Like your dog, she showed dominance over an older dog before that dog died. Like your dog, she snapped at a kid. She never had to deal with a toddler of ours, as our youngest child was 4 when we got her, but she did nip our daughter once, and has nipped at other toddlers. As a result, she is NEVER ALLOWED within lunging distance of a young child. She also snapped her teeth within 2 inches of the vet’s face on her first visit. Yes, she could easily have bitten him, and chose not to. Does that mean he should have continued to handle her without a muzzle? I don’t think so.

I truthfully believe that you have a dog that is very poorly suited to life with you and your baby, and it will take tremendous vigilance on your part to keep your daughter safe. You have allowed the dog to run things for a long time, and she is used to that. IMO, this type of dog is not going to “listen” to the baby until she is close to 10 years old, and you are going to spend the next 8 years watching every step the dog makes.

In our case, we kept our pugnacious dog, and kept her fairly isolated. It was easier for us, our kids were older, experienced with dogs, and she was protective of them, didn’t bite them. I will freely admit we did not know what we were doing, and if I had been reading Ed’s site back then, we may have done a much better job changing her behavior. As it is, we felt committed to her and kept her, but it has been a long road, and she would have done better in a house as the only dog, with no young kids, and a more knowledgeable handler. Please read everything Ed has to say, listen to the more experienced people on this board, study the videos, but please keep the dog away from the baby for a good long time.

Polly